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Post by ronmiller on Feb 4, 2020 22:03:41 GMT
I can just see that on a theater marquee!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 23:50:53 GMT
Year 0 can cover a lot of territory, depending on what you're referencing.
In Islam 2020 CE is AH 1441 - 1442 while for the Jewish faith 2020 CE is Year 5780.
The earliest known written Chinese records date back to around 1250 BCE.
Then there's the city of Babylon, founded around 2300 BCE.
The pedant in me is forcing me to do this... There was no year 0. The year following 1 BCE was 1 CE. I think the confusion comes from thinking of years like a list of numbers that would run like this: -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3 or perhaps like the degrees on a thermometer. But years, like the inches (or cms for my non-US friends) on a ruler, don't work that way. Unlike numbers, inches and years are spans, one of space the other of time. For instance, the first inch on a ruler would be the space between the left end of the ruler and the mark labeled "1." There is no "Zero inch." Likewise, 1 AD would be the span of time separating January 1 and December 31. If you were to take two rulers and butt the one-inch ends up against one another, you would get the equivalent of BCE and CE years. One ruler would be counting down to 1, the other counting up from 1. There is no zero inch between them. In the same way, the last year of 1 BCE would be the span of time from January 1 to December 31. The day following would be January 1 of 1 CE.* (* I'm pretending for the sake of argument that this dating system was in use 2000 years ago.) Ron, as I was reading this I thought, I'm not going to understand, why am I reading this. But, you're a good teacher. I realized midway through, that true! He's right. No zero year. Enjoyably pedantic. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 23:54:02 GMT
Cameron, if I knew all that it would make me a historian. I'm thinking take our 2020 and go back 2020 years.  If your time traveler goes back 2020 years, you'll need to research the cultures / societies of you target area in order to make the story plausible.
Think of history as a tapestry, where some threads have been lost or obscured by time because people often don't record what they think of as common knowledge. Check out a book or two on archaeology for the area of interest as well as some in-depth history.
Prepare to be a student of history, which when done for your own purposes is a lot more enjoyable than sitting in a class memorizing dates and names. It's worth the time spent.
Yes, I was thinking today that a woman fetching water from a water well in the middle ages, who is accused of witchery, falls in and suddenly finds herself in the year 1.  ) BUT., a well has been used to time travel already (LOST tv series), and I would have to really study the middle ages in depth and the year 1. I need a new, original entry point. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 23:56:07 GMT
Try the far future, where a student of dead languages finally finds a use for 21st Century English [at that time a dead language]. The far future would be easier. I could make it all up. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 23:57:26 GMT
The pedant in me is forcing me to do this... There was no year 0. The year following 1 BCE was 1 CE. I think the confusion comes from thinking of years like a list of numbers that would run like this: -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3 or perhaps like the degrees on a thermometer. But years, like the inches (or cms for my non-US friends) on a ruler, don't work that way. Unlike numbers, inches and years are spans, one of space the other of time. For instance, the first inch on a ruler would be the space between the left end of the ruler and the mark labeled "1." Likewise, 1 AD would be the span of time separating January 1 and December 31. If you were to take two rulers and butt the one-inch ends up against one another, you would get the equivalent of BCE and CE years. One ruler would be counting down to 1, the other counting up from 1. There is no zero inch between them. In the same way, the last year of 1 BCE would be the span of time from January 1 to December 31. The day following would be January 1 of 1 CE.* (* I'm pretending for the sake of argument that this dating system was in use 2000 years ago.) A pity there was no zeroth year. What a great title. Zeroth Year |
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Post by benziger on Feb 5, 2020 6:34:59 GMT
Also for another reason, there can be no year zero in any story: Our calendar was introduced not at 1.1.1, but later, retroactive. The counting of the years in the Julian calendar was different in the different parts of the Roman Empire; in the west, most of the times, the years were not counted at all but named after the two consuls who were in office for one year. In addition, the census "from the foundation of the town (Rome)" and later the Diocletian era was also used. In the East the Seleucid Era was common, counting 312 B.C. as year one. In 537 Emperor Justinian finally introduced the census according to years of rule in a legally binding manner. In the West, the Christian calendar, which is still in use today, only became established from the 8th century onwards, while in the East the calendar "from the creation of the world" was still customary for a long time; this was set by the Byzantines to the year 5509 BC. From Late Antiquity onwards, two points of reference in Christianity for a separate annual account were particularly interesting, the creation of the world and the birth of Christ. In 525, the monk Dionysius Exiguus determined the date of the birth of Jesus Christ for the year 754 ab urbe condita ("since the foundation of Rome"), based on the Old and New Testaments. He designated the first year of Christ's life with a One. The Anglo-Saxon Benedictine Beda Venerabilis (673-735) wrote the Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum ("Church History of the English People") around 731. He took up again the counting of years since the birth of Christ used by Dionysius. It spread from England in the course of the 8th century through the Frankish Empire in the Occident. In his Chroniconon Hermann von Reichenau († 1054) for the first time placed all historical events exclusively in relation to the year of Christ's birth. Around the year 1060, the Roman Catholic Church made use of these annual accounts.
(This is not the knowledge of a historian, but the synthesis of three Wikipedia articles.  Of course, you have to have a clue to know what - or at least in which direction - to look for.) |
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Post by benziger on Feb 5, 2020 6:38:51 GMT
I would have to really study the middle ages in depth and the year 1. Whether it is antiquity (year 1), the Middle Ages or modern times: it is always good to have an idea what you are writing about. I suppose that's why so much autobiographical stuff happens in literature: the author knows his life - or at least thinks he does. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 10:04:08 GMT
Yes, they say you should write about what you know. That is why I marvel at historical authors, or those who create a world from scratch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 10:10:06 GMT
Also for another reason, there can be no year zero in any story: Our calendar was introduced not at 1.1.1, but later, retroactive. The counting of the years in the Julian calendar was different in the different parts of the Roman Empire; in the west, most of the times, the years were not counted at all but named after the two consuls who were in office for one year. In addition, the census "from the foundation of the town (Rome)" and later the Diocletian era was also used. In the East the Seleucid Era was common, counting 312 B.C. as year one. In 537 Emperor Justinian finally introduced the census according to years of rule in a legally binding manner. In the West, the Christian calendar, which is still in use today, only became established from the 8th century onwards, while in the East the calendar "from the creation of the world" was still customary for a long time; this was set by the Byzantines to the year 5509 BC. From Late Antiquity onwards, two points of reference in Christianity for a separate annual account were particularly interesting, the creation of the world and the birth of Christ. In 525, the monk Dionysius Exiguus determined the date of the birth of Jesus Christ for the year 754 ab urbe condita ("since the foundation of Rome"), based on the Old and New Testaments. He designated the first year of Christ's life with a One. The Anglo-Saxon Benedictine Beda Venerabilis (673-735) wrote the Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum ("Church History of the English People") around 731. He took up again the counting of years since the birth of Christ used by Dionysius. It spread from England in the course of the 8th century through the Frankish Empire in the Occident. In his Chroniconon Hermann von Reichenau († 1054) for the first time placed all historical events exclusively in relation to the year of Christ's birth. Around the year 1060, the Roman Catholic Church made use of these annual accounts.
(This is not the knowledge of a historian, but the synthesis of three Wikipedia articles. Of course, you have to have a clue to know what - or at least in which direction - to look for.) That's what I was looking for. Year One according to whom and how. I will do some more research, maybe watch some videos. You gave me a good starting point. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 5, 2020 13:28:25 GMT
Yes, they say you should write about what you know. That is why I marvel at historical authors, or those who create a world from scratch. According to the Pharaonic Calendar this is the year 6261.
Most calendars have the start point as some significant event for the society that creates them, whether due to religious belief or other factors.
Creating a world isn't so difficult, think of it like cooking. Gather your basic ingredients [as in what happened to make the world what it is], check for internal consistency [as in make sure your details are in the right order for the story], then start adding ingredients [general plot, characters, and so on].
One example is your time traveler could be dropped into a future where the year [according to the locals] is 2903, yet it isn't 883 years into our future, it's 2903 years after our current civilization has crashed and humanity had to start over and achieved some stability. In other words the Year 1 would be when civil order had been restored on a fairly large scale.
As for how your traveler gets to the future, Ambrose Bierce collected a lot of stories about people who simply disappeared, sometimes while being observed. One of his stories was about someone who vanished while walking across a field, the person's footprints simply stopped, no body to be found -- if memory serves that person was under observation when he vanished.
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Post by ronmiller on Feb 5, 2020 13:41:16 GMT
H. Beam Piper wrote a famous short story, "He Walked Around the Horses" (1948), based on the mysterious disappearance of Benjamin Bathurst in 1809.
Charles Fort collected scores of similar accounts in his books, "The Book of the Damned" and "Lo!"
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 5, 2020 13:51:09 GMT
H. Beam Piper wrote a famous short story, "He Walked Around the Horses" (1948), based on the mysterious disappearance of Benjamin Bathurst in 1809. Charles Fort collected scores of similar accounts in his books, "The Book of the Damned" and "Lo!" While many people today would call those accounts unscientific bunkum, just because science can't explain some things [yet] doesn't mean strange things don't happen.
Some details of those old accounts can be easily woven into a novel.
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Post by ronmiller on Feb 5, 2020 14:25:35 GMT
H. Beam Piper wrote a famous short story, "He Walked Around the Horses" (1948), based on the mysterious disappearance of Benjamin Bathurst in 1809. Charles Fort collected scores of similar accounts in his books, "The Book of the Damned" and "Lo!" While many people today would call those accounts unscientific bunkum, just because science can't explain some things [yet] doesn't mean strange things don't happen.
Some details of those old accounts can be easily woven into a novel.
As indeed they have. Charles Fort was something of a gold mine for authors in the 40s and 50s, with probably the best-known novel he inspired being "Sinister Barrier" (inspired almost entirely from the single sentence "I think we are property.") Aside from Fortean phenomena, novelists have drawn inspiration from everything from Atlantis and UFOs to ESP and the hollow earth. In every case, all that is really needed to do is make your premise seem plausible. Verisimilitude is what Edgar Allan Poe called it. "Willing suspension of disbelief" is what you are after in your readers. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 17:25:10 GMT
Yes, they say you should write about what you know. That is why I marvel at historical authors, or those who create a world from scratch. According to the Pharaonic Calendar this is the year 6261.
Most calendars have the start point as some significant event for the society that creates them, whether due to religious belief or other factors.
Creating a world isn't so difficult, think of it like cooking. Gather your basic ingredients [as in what happened to make the world what it is], check for internal consistency [as in make sure your details are in the right order for the story], then start adding ingredients [general plot, characters, and so on].
One example is your time traveler could be dropped into a future where the year [according to the locals] is 2903, yet it isn't 883 years into our future, it's 2903 years after our current civilization has crashed and humanity had to start over and achieved some stability. In other words the Year 1 would be when civil order had been restored on a fairly large scale.
As for how your traveler gets to the future, Ambrose Bierce collected a lot of stories about people who simply disappeared, sometimes while being observed. One of his stories was about someone who vanished while walking across a field, the person's footprints simply stopped, no body to be found -- if memory serves that person was under observation when he vanished.
So glad I posted for ideas. So inspiring and gets the writer juices flowing. Ambrose Bierce. I will look her up. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 17:28:12 GMT
H. Beam Piper wrote a famous short story, "He Walked Around the Horses" (1948), based on the mysterious disappearance of Benjamin Bathurst in 1809. Charles Fort collected scores of similar accounts in his books, "The Book of the Damned" and "Lo!" I think I am being led to where I am meant to go. My heart is racing at the pinpointing of what I find interesting. You don't know what you're looking for until you see it. Thank you, I will look them up. |
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) BUT., a well has been used to time travel already (LOST tv series), and I would have to really study the middle ages in depth and the year 1. I need a new, original entry point.
Of course, you have to have a clue to know what - or at least in which direction - to look for.)