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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 18:55:54 GMT
I was astounded by an article I read by The Washington Post: There are lawsuits and resistance and slogans like "This is America" not Nazi Germany where the state gave people no choices. The Police and firefighters are the ones filing the lawsuits and resisting. Wow.
If you're interested, Google it. I dare not post a link.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Oct 4, 2021 14:59:24 GMT
Yes, in the US some members of law enforcement and fire departments are upset they might have to follow an order they don't like from superiors, which oddly enough they're supposed to follow orders when it's a matter of public health.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 15:03:40 GMT
Yes, in the US some members of law enforcement and fire departments are upset they might have to follow an order they don't like from superiors, which oddly enough they're supposed to follow orders when it's a matter of public health. Hmmm... you're right, but individual freedoms, don't they trump work responsibilities? |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Oct 4, 2021 16:14:33 GMT
Yes, in the US some members of law enforcement and fire departments are upset they might have to follow an order they don't like from superiors, which oddly enough they're supposed to follow orders when it's a matter of public health. Hmmm... you're right, but individual freedoms, don't they trump work responsibilities? Okay, suppose you sign a work contract stating you'll fulfill certain requirements expected of you for employment, then later you decide your individual freedoms trump your work responsibilities and conditions you previously agreed to abide by. In the US you can then be fired for breach of contract. Can you file a lawsuit? Yes. Will you win? The odds are against you. Why? Because there have been a lot of past court rulings upholding society's ability to mandate vaccines for the public good.
It isn't Orwellian, it isn't fascism, and it isn't stomping on individual freedoms for no reason. It's called terms of employment. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 17:01:24 GMT
Hmmm... you're right, but individual freedoms, don't they trump work responsibilities? Okay, suppose you sign a work contract stating you'll fulfill certain requirements expected of you for employment, then later you decide your individual freedoms trump your work responsibilities and conditions you previously agreed to abide by. In the US you can then be fired for breach of contract. Can you file a lawsuit? Yes. Will you win? The odds are against you. Why? Because there have been a lot of past court rulings upholding society's ability to mandate vaccines for the public good.
It isn't Orwellian, it isn't fascism, and it isn't stomping on individual freedoms for no reason. It's called terms of employment. I understand, but perhaps they would not have signed the contract had they known then they would be in this situation. One may have agreed to follow the rules before they knew specifically what would be required of them. Example, suppose my employer tells us suddenly the government requires all employees to donate one kidney for the good of the world... Which reminds me, I read a book by a super famous Asian writer whose name unbelievably escapes me, and it was so so sad. I think it broke me. I'm tempted to spoil it, but I won't because it was truly brilliant. Hmm... I think he wrote Remains of the Day. It came to me as I was writing. I will look up his name. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 17:05:19 GMT
Okay, suppose you sign a work contract stating you'll fulfill certain requirements expected of you for employment, then later you decide your individual freedoms trump your work responsibilities and conditions you previously agreed to abide by. In the US you can then be fired for breach of contract. Can you file a lawsuit? Yes. Will you win? The odds are against you. Why? Because there have been a lot of past court rulings upholding society's ability to mandate vaccines for the public good.
It isn't Orwellian, it isn't fascism, and it isn't stomping on individual freedoms for no reason. It's called terms of employment. I understand, but perhaps they would not have signed the contract had they known then they would be in this situation. One may have agreed to follow the rules before they knew specifically what would be required of them. Example, suppose my employer tells us suddenly the government requires all employees to donate one kidney for the good of the world... Which reminds me, I read a book by a super famous Asian writer whose name unbelievably escapes me, and it was so so sad. I think it broke me. I'm tempted to spoil it, but I won't because it was truly brilliant. Hmm... I think he wrote Remains of the Day. It came to me as I was writing. I will look up his name. Kazuo Ishiguru. Book title: Never Let Me Go |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Oct 4, 2021 17:22:46 GMT
Okay, suppose you sign a work contract stating you'll fulfill certain requirements expected of you for employment, then later you decide your individual freedoms trump your work responsibilities and conditions you previously agreed to abide by. In the US you can then be fired for breach of contract. Can you file a lawsuit? Yes. Will you win? The odds are against you. Why? Because there have been a lot of past court rulings upholding society's ability to mandate vaccines for the public good.
It isn't Orwellian, it isn't fascism, and it isn't stomping on individual freedoms for no reason. It's called terms of employment. I understand, but perhaps they would not have signed the contract had they known then they would be in this situation. One may have agreed to follow the rules before they knew specifically what would be required of them. Example, suppose my employer tells us suddenly the government requires all employees to donate one kidney for the good of the world... Which reminds me, I read a book by a super famous Asian writer whose name unbelievably escapes me, and it was so so sad. I think it broke me. I'm tempted to spoil it, but I won't because it was truly brilliant. Hmm... I think he wrote Remains of the Day. It came to me as I was writing. I will look up his name.
The bottom line for law enforcement and firefighters is the idealistic slogan most often used is "To Serve and Protect" rather than "To Serve and Infect".
With the exercise of freedom comes both responsibility and potential consequences for one's actions. One individual's freedoms end where the next individual's freedoms begin.
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Post by Ken on Oct 5, 2021 10:28:53 GMT
I’ve no idea what this thread is about.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 11:14:54 GMT
I’ve no idea what this thread is about. That's okay. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 11:17:22 GMT
I understand, but perhaps they would not have signed the contract had they known then they would be in this situation. One may have agreed to follow the rules before they knew specifically what would be required of them. Example, suppose my employer tells us suddenly the government requires all employees to donate one kidney for the good of the world... Which reminds me, I read a book by a super famous Asian writer whose name unbelievably escapes me, and it was so so sad. I think it broke me. I'm tempted to spoil it, but I won't because it was truly brilliant. Hmm... I think he wrote Remains of the Day. It came to me as I was writing. I will look up his name.
The bottom line for law enforcement and firefighters is the idealistic slogan most often used is "To Serve and Protect" rather than "To Serve and Infect".
With the exercise of freedom comes both responsibility and potential consequences for one's actions. One individual's freedoms end where the next individual's freedoms begin.
I like what you wrote. I'll mull it over for the rest of the day. Thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 11:19:19 GMT
The bottom line for law enforcement and firefighters is the idealistic slogan most often used is "To Serve and Protect" rather than "To Serve and Infect".
With the exercise of freedom comes both responsibility and potential consequences for one's actions. One individual's freedoms end where the next individual's freedoms begin.
I like what you wrote. I'll mull it over for the rest of the day. Thank you. That's wild about the kidney. Good news, of course, with them being stolen all over South America. Or so I've heard. |
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Post by ronmiller on Oct 5, 2021 11:52:45 GMT
With freedom comes responsibility. Free speech allows you to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Should you exercise that right? Or not accept responsibility for the consequences? One's freedom to decide whether or not to wear a mask or get vaccinated does not extend to the freedom to infect others.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Oct 5, 2021 15:55:26 GMT
With freedom comes responsibility. Free speech allows you to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Should you exercise that right? Or not accept responsibility for the consequences? One's freedom to decide whether or not to wear a mask or get vaccinated does not extend to the freedom to infect others.
I suspect there are many currently saying 'but I don' wanna' who would have benefited from more exposure to the subject.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Oct 5, 2021 22:30:11 GMT
I’ve no idea what this thread is about. Mr Anderson,
Some medical personnel have been similarly resistant.
Considering the contracts many law enforcement and firefighters [as well as medical personnel] work under in the US, their employers can generally require vaccination for infectious disease as a condition for continued employment; but they don't wanna get it if they're being told to get it.
Hope the above helps.
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Post by Ken on Oct 6, 2021 6:22:15 GMT
Thank you Cameron.
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