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NEGRO
Mar 7, 2023 17:44:32 GMT
Post by potet on Mar 7, 2023 17:44:32 GMT
I am aware some people have decreed that the English term "Negro" is now taboo. What do you use instead when you have two characters from the South talking politely about Blacks before the Civil War. I know they did not call them "Blacks".
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 7, 2023 19:11:12 GMT
I am aware some people have decreed that the English term "Negro" is now taboo. What do you use instead when you have two characters from the South talking politely about Blacks before the Civil War. I know they did not call them "Blacks". If this is for a story about the time in question then either Negro or Colored would be considered polite. Person of Color was also used at times.
At the time the "One Drop" rule stated if a person had even one drop of African blood they were Colored, even if they looked Scandinavian.
As late as WWII my father's military records show two choices for 'race', either White or Colored.
If you're looking for historical accuracy, use the polite terms in use at the time. Either way you go someone somewhere is likely to get upset, but the world is what it is.
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NEGRO
Mar 8, 2023 1:31:31 GMT
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Mar 8, 2023 1:31:31 GMT
Some people have declared many words as un-pc. The 'Woke' people ... There's a big fuss in the UK because, apparently, publishers are making classic stories for children, more 'PC'. Replacing some words with others. www.lbc.co.uk/news/roald-dahl-publishers-slammed-for-removing-offensive-terms-from-novels-including/But the word negro simply means black. It's a description. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro although some do use it as an insult. But this is a stronger one >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger always used as an insult. But basically, if your characters are seen to be realistic, then they need to talk as some people would talk. Don't forget that it's not you speaking, but a character. There's no problem with doing that in film and TV, especially with subscription channels. Where some words used to be seen as offense, the F and C words for example, are now included in speech, if that's how that character talks. It's simply more realistic. That type of media is rated though, and surprisingly often 16+ Book age ratings are a different thing though. Stories with that sort of language in are normally 18+ rated. The bottom line is >> not every character is the same. Some are very un-PC. Just the same as some are murderers.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Mar 8, 2023 1:46:38 GMT
I am aware some people have decreed that the English term "Negro" is now taboo. What do you use instead when you have two characters from the South talking politely about Blacks before the Civil War. I know they did not call them "Blacks". If this is for a story about the time in question then either Negro or Colored would be considered polite. Person of Color was also used at times.
I am not sure that's true. I don't know where the cut off point is, the time when most people became aware they may be inadvertently insulting people. Prior to that it never occurred to most people they were being insulting!
At the time the "One Drop" rule stated if a person had even one drop of African blood they were Colored, even if they looked Scandinavian. Is still the case it seems, in the USA. It surprised me when some there were disturbed that one of our princes was to marry a black girl. Meghan Markle. Huh? I am darker than her! Apparently I have Spanish ancestors! But I would assume that if we went back far enough, there's a trace of African blood, or at least DNA, in all of us. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
As late as WWII my father's military records show two choices for 'race', either White or Colored
50 shades of 'colour'.
If you're looking for historical accuracy, use the polite terms in use at the time.
Speak as the character may speak. He/she may not be polite!
Either way you go someone somewhere is likely to get upset,
Some live just to get upset. The internet is full of them.
but the world is what it is.
One day we may all be grey.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 8, 2023 17:27:27 GMT
If this is for a story about the time in question then either Negro or Colored would be considered polite. Person of Color was also used at times.
I am not sure that's true. I don't know where the cut off point is, the time when most people became aware they may be inadvertently insulting people. Prior to that it never occurred to most people they were being insulting!
At the time the "One Drop" rule stated if a person had even one drop of African blood they were Colored, even if they looked Scandinavian. Is still the case it seems, in the USA. It surprised me when some there were disturbed that one of our princes was to marry a black girl. Meghan Markle. Huh? I am darker than her! Apparently I have Spanish ancestors! But I would assume that if we went back far enough, there's a trace of African blood, or at least DNA, in all of us. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
As late as WWII my father's military records show two choices for 'race', either White or Colored
50 shades of 'colour'.
If you're looking for historical accuracy, use the polite terms in use at the time.
Speak as the character may speak. He/she may not be polite!
Either way you go someone somewhere is likely to get upset,
Some live just to get upset. The internet is full of them.
but the world is what it is.
One day we may all be grey. Funny thing, I see BBC [and other English news] articles here in the US. As a result I tend to suspect there are people in the UK [as in the US and the rest of the world] who are more than just a bit prejudiced and / or bigoted. It is what it is. And yes, there are some people [not just in the US] who believe in "One Drop". Having been on the receiving end of it I am aware.
Bottom line is write the character as the character would have been, unless it's a character in a universe full of puppies, kittens, unicorns, and Barney.
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Post by potet on Mar 8, 2023 21:15:16 GMT
Thanks a lot for your answers. For the moment, I am writing the text in French; the scene is taking place in a Southern state before the Civil War. A black slave tells his white master : "Vous aimez tant les nègres que vous ne pourriez pas vivre ailleurs." So I can safely translate it in English as: "You are so fond of negroes that you couldn't live anywhere else."
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Mar 9, 2023 0:55:58 GMT
unny thing, I see BBC [and other English news] articles here in the US. As a result I tend to suspect there are people in the UK [as in the US and the rest of the world] who are more than just a bit prejudiced and / or bigoted. It is what it is. I think it's less so in the UK. It has never been segregated, so people are used to mixing with people who 'do not look like themselves'. There's always the odd one or two who remain racist though. But here it is in fact illegal in many instances.
I think it's an inbuilt sociological thing that some never overcome, and it's often passed on by how their parents think. From when people from the closest settlements or cave were looked at in suspicion because they may steal your food or your women, or simply stick a spear in you. Dog eat dog competition.And yes, there are some people [not just in the US] who believe in "One Drop". Having been on the receiving end of it I am aware. Often it's pure ignorance and idiocy. I once owned an army surplus jumper. Some local 'nutter' thought I was German (not that that should matter nowadays surely?!) and made it plain he disapproved. Simply because it had a small German flag on the sleeve! Just a flag, Not a swastika!Bottom line is write the character as the character would have been, unless it's a character in a universe full of puppies, kittens, unicorns, and Barney. Well, one could be writing a story for children
The ridiculously long Wheel of Time I am currently reading, one of the main characters says bloody quite often (and is often told off by other characters). That's the only actual 'real life' profanity in it. Towards the end it's co-written, and then fully written by someone else, because the main writer dies. More and more bloodies start to slip in. It's as if the co-writer sees no harm in using many of them. Maybe because one of the characters in Harry Potter uses it a lot, so it must be 'OK' to use. The books are classed as YA upwards. As I said before. Fiction is very ruled by what can be in it depending on the age aimed at. (KDP asks for a rating and get a bit miffed if they think you picked the wrong one.) So really it depends on who you want to read a book how many of them, and what type of words are used in it. But negro is just a description. Black or coloured could be used. I would imagine the description of a person only needs to be said once.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Mar 9, 2023 0:56:32 GMT
Keep it real :-)
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 9, 2023 14:09:22 GMT
I agree with Kevin. Keep it real. Let the characters be who they are, and let them use the language they would use.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Mar 10, 2023 0:42:49 GMT
www.litcharts.com/literary-devices-and-terms/characterizationIt's a balancing act as to how real one should get though. Often an age classification for books often depends on the age of the main characters (in fiction that is). If they are teenagers then it will be YA, which starts at 12, or sometimes 14. What words are considered to be OK in those changes by the decade though. (T Pratchett always commented that hearing children playing sounds sweet, unless you can hear what they are saying). Over 18 almost anything goes, apart from in your face blatant porn. jerichowriters.com/words-instead-of-fuck/But as I say, negro is a description of a person from a certain area of Africa. Or their descendants now I suppose. (African Americans. But it always puzzles me such terms. Born in the USA, then they are American. Genes are irrelevant in that instance). You cannot really use African to describe a black person, because they are not all on that continent, and have not been so for 1,000s of years, black ... Whereas the other N word is insulting, but a character could still say it.
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NEGRO
Mar 10, 2023 10:38:57 GMT
Post by potet on Mar 10, 2023 10:38:57 GMT
The Blacks of the French West Indies feel quite different from African Blacks, although such were their forefathers. They do use _nègres_ (Negro)to refer to themselves, and poet Aimé CÉSAIRE even coined the term _négritude_ (Negroness) to refer to their nature; this term is now entered in our dictionaries.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 10, 2023 21:38:29 GMT
Many American blacks refer to themselves and each other with the PC-banned "N" word. I have seen/heard it many, many times.
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NEGRO
Mar 11, 2023 2:17:41 GMT
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Mar 11, 2023 2:17:41 GMT
Many American blacks refer to themselves and each other with the PC-banned "N" word. I have seen/heard it many, many times. I thought they normally called each other bro?
Have you noticed that only certain races in the USA call themselves, for example, American/Italian? There are decedents in the USA of people from many countries. I have never heard any say, American/English. American/Welsh. American/French, etc.
Incidentally. Robinsons, the jam making company, used to give away, in exchange for a number of jar labels, a golliwog badge. They stopped when it was pointed out it was racist. But the blacks in Africa fighting against apartheid asked for it to be carried on, because they used them pinned to their jackets during protests. I do believe Robinsons did so. www.golliwogg.co.uk/robertsons.htm although that interesting bit of history seems to have been missed out ... however www.golliwogg.co.uk/racism.htm
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