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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 7:52:22 GMT
I have rewritten my poem which was too hard for little ones. This is for 5-8 year old children. What do you think? critiques welcome!
/Oh please be kind and gentle,
To creatures that you eat.
Choose hens that live on happy farms
If you love your chicken meat.
Some hens are in an awful place
They call it a factory farm.
They crowd them in so they can’t move
It causes so much harm
Most pigs turned into pork folk eat
Spend lives in lots of pain
They live in dumps with concrete floors,
It really is a shame
They put the mother in a box
To feed her little piglets
Mum cannot turn, can hardly move.
It really is no picnic
Sheep and cattle love outdoors
Living in sunshine
But they are kept in concrete yards.
And that is such a crime
So many of these farms are made
By cutting lots of trees.
It really is so very sad
Our earth just cannot breathe.
The oxygen we get from trees
In forests far and wide,
Is ruined by this nasty group
So greedy and unwise.
So let your kindness be your guide,
And don’t eat so much meat
Choose creatures from the better farms
If they are what you eat.
The origunal poem
Oh please be kind and gentle,
To creatures that you eat.
Choose chickens that are free range
If you love your chicken meat.
Hens crammed into a factory farm
Are cruelly forced to be,
In closed off sheds so foully crushed,
They suffer agony
Most pigs reared for the pork you eat
Spend lives in pain and grief
Cooped up in pens with concrete floors,
No bedding no relief
Mother sow placed in a crate,
To feed her nursing brood.
She cannot turn, can hardly move.
Her life is dark and crude.
Sheep and cattle love outdoors,
It causes me alarm,
They spend their lives in concrete yards.
The new intensive farm.
So many of these farms are made
By cutting lots of trees.
It really is so very sad
Our earth just cannot breathe.
The oxygen we get from trees
In forests far and wide,
Is ruined by the industries
So greedy and unwise.
So let your conscience be your guide,
Reduce your meat consumption.
Choose creatures that are kindly bred,
Not the intensive option
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 19, 2020 17:28:02 GMT
That was a nice compliment in the other thread, Larika. Thank you!
I am hesitant to enter into trying to critique others' poetry as I see poetry as an open art form, unrestrained by any particular set of rules (unless one is trying to impress some ridiculous academic or self-appointed expert). [Sorry - my opinion only.]
The only rule I have in my little world regarding poetry is, DO I LIKE IT? Does it flow with a natural rhythm and a pleasing rhyme? There really need not even be a particular message intended, much like Rock & Roll lyrics, which typically are so vague in nature that it is left up to the listener to determine their own interpretation. (I understand that is actually the mark of a great commercial R&R song.)
Punctuation can also be up to the poetry writer, in my humble opinion. In school I was taught that every line must end in a comma. I hated that. It is ridiculous. In my world the end of a line can imply a comma or not, and it is up to the reader to read/speak it as their eyes and inner reading voice may determine.
It is good to note that elements of the scansion of a poem can vary from reader to reader depending on the natural flow of their particular reading style or local dialect and pronunciation. I know, for example, that differences in the pronunciation of some words by British people can vary widely from the pronunciations of their American or South African cousins. This can be severe enough to alter the perceived/spoken number of syllables in a word, which can affect the rhythm of the meter and change a foot from an iamb to a trochee, depending on the reader's syllabic stresses. This is where critics can have a self-stroking heyday.
Note too, that some people have no inner voice, no inner running narrative.
Hence, I hesitate. I shudder. I don't like to inject MY artistic prejudices on other's work, as some people in this world love to do. So I keep to myself and write things which please MY inner vocalizations as per MY mid-western American pronunciations and I damn the torpedoes. That is the only way to live at peace.
With that said, I will tentatively mark up your work with the way MY inner voice would prefer it written. With that and a dollar you might buy a cup of coffee, if you can find it that cheap.
Ah, Larika. My apologies in advance. But perhaps you will see how inner narratives can vary by geography?
Oh, please be kind and gentle
To the creatures that you eat.
Choose hens that come from happy farms
If you love your chicken meat.
Some hens are put in awful places
We call them factory farms.
They crowd them in so they can’t move
And cause the poor hens harm.
Most Some pigs which make the pork you eat
Spend lives in awful pain.
They live in dumps with concrete floors,
It really is a shame.
They put the mother in a crate
To feed the little piglets small.
Mum cannot turn, can hardly move.
It's no picnic at all!
Sheep and cattle love outdoors!
It causes me alarm
They spend their lives in concrete yards. To see them put in concrete yards
In At such an awful farm.
So many of these farms are made
By cutting lots of trees.
It really is so very sad
Our earth just cannot breathe!
The oxygen we get from trees
In forests far and wide,
Is ruined by these awful men
So greedy and unwise.
So let your conscience be your guide
And don’t eat so much meat.
Choose creatures from the better farms
If flesh is what you eat.
The original poem
Oh, please be kind and gentle
To the creatures that you eat.
Choose chickens that are grown free range
If you love your chicken meat.
Hens crammed into a factory farms
Are cruelly forced to be
In closed-off sheds so foully crushed,
They suffer agony.
Most Some pigs reared for the pork you eat
Spend lives in pain and grief
Cooped up in pens with concrete floors,
No bedding, no relief.
Mother sow placed in a crate
To feed her nursing brood.
She cannot turn, can hardly move,
Her life is dark and crude.
Sheep and cattle love outdoors,
It causes me alarm.
They spend their lives in concrete yards:
The new intensive farm.
So many of these farms are made
By cutting lots of trees.
It really is so very sad
Our earth just cannot breathe!
The oxygen we get from trees
In forests far and wide
Is ruined by the industries
So greedy and unwise.
So let your conscience be your guide,
Reduce your meat consumption.
Choose creatures that are kindly bred,
Not the intensive option.
Once again, my apologies. I hate playing the critic. But if you find some value in my butchery, well, thank Heavens! I'll duck and cover now.
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Post by ronmiller on Mar 19, 2020 18:11:23 GMT
I have much the same qualms as B&G...so here goes...
(Oh, and I am going to try to not repeat any of B&G's suggestions)
Oh please be kind and gentle,
To creatures that you eat.
Choose hens that live on happy farms
If you love your chicken meat.
Some hens are in an awful place
That's called a factory farm.
They crowd them in so they can’t move
It causes so much harm
Most pigs turned into pork folk eat
Spend lives in lots of pain
They live in dumps with concrete floors,
It really is a shame
They put the mother in a box
To feed her little piglets
Mum cannot turn, can hardly move.
It really is no picnic
Sheep and cattle love outdoors
Living in sunshine
But they are kept in concrete yards.
And that is such a crime
So many of these farms are made
By cutting lots of trees.
It really is so very sad
Our earth just cannot breathe.
The oxygen we get from trees
In forests far and wide,
Is ruined by this nasty group
So greedy and unwise.
These last two stanzas I kind of wonder about. I certainly agree with the sentiment, but they seem to stray a little from the main theme of the poem. That is, you have gone from the mistreatment of food animals in factory farms to deforestation generally. Perhaps you could tie the two together more.
So let your kindness be your guide,
And don’t eat so much meat
Choose creatures from the better farms
If they are what you eat.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 19, 2020 18:51:20 GMT
Yes, Ron. I agree. The two prior to the last are a departure from theme.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 19:34:52 GMT
Thank you so much BlueAndGold and Ron. I really appreciate your help. I have copied what you have written and will study them in detail later. Ron the original poem I wrote did not have those 2 verses. I added them because I wanted to show how cutting down trees and using vast areas of land for these factory farms could be so harmful for our planet. Well spotted Ron. However I take your point. Again I thank you both very,very much.
I could also have included the oceans where we get so much of our oxygen. Folk are ruining our oeeans. However I kept out fish. I also tended to generalise about the problems of factory farms as they are all over the world.(The poem is aimed at young children) Here in England we are working hard to bring about laws against these cruel places. I signed a petition against factory farms. (If yoy get enough signatures and present it to Parliament,the Government will hold a debate) At the beginning of the week Parliament held a debate and a law could follow.
Let's leave a decent planet for our next generation.
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Post by ronmiller on Mar 19, 2020 20:28:49 GMT
Thank you so much BlueAndGold and Ron. I really appreciate your help. I have copied what you have written and will study them in detail later. Ron the original poem I wrote did not have those 2 verses. I added them because I wanted to show how cutting down trees and using vast areas of land for these factory farms could be so harmful for our planet. Well spotted Ron. However I take your point. Again I thank you both very,very much. I could also have included the oceans where we get so much of our oxygen. Folk are ruining our oeeans. However I kept out fish. I also tended to generalise about the problems of factory farms as they are all over the world.(The poem is aimed at young children) Here in England we are working hard to bring about laws against these cruel places. I signed a petition against factory farms. (If yoy get enough signatures and present it to Parliament,the Government will hold a debate) At the beginning of the week Parliament held a debate and a law could follow. Let's leave a decent planet for our next generation. The environment might be a subject for an entirely new poem/book! |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 19, 2020 22:30:17 GMT
Thank you so much BlueAndGold and Ron. I really appreciate your help. I have copied what you have written and will study them in detail later. Ron the original poem I wrote did not have those 2 verses. I added them because I wanted to show how cutting down trees and using vast areas of land for these factory farms could be so harmful for our planet. Well spotted Ron. However I take your point. Again I thank you both very,very much. I could also have included the oceans where we get so much of our oxygen. Folk are ruining our oeeans. However I kept out fish. I also tended to generalise about the problems of factory farms as they are all over the world.(The poem is aimed at young children) Here in England we are working hard to bring about laws against these cruel places. I signed a petition against factory farms. (If yoy get enough signatures and present it to Parliament,the Government will hold a debate) At the beginning of the week Parliament held a debate and a law could follow. Let's leave a decent planet for our next generation. The environment might be a subject for an entirely new poem/book! Aye Ron,
I do tend to agree. The Lady is very perceptive, and the environment would likely be an excellent subject for not just a poem, but an entirely new book.
I understand the gist of the poetry, and while being able to visualize the intended scene I'm not sufficiently competent in the art form to offer other comments.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 20, 2020 0:39:53 GMT
One other item I might offer for consideration is to reformat your stanzas/verses into longer lines that consistently end in rhymes. Many "standard" verses will follow a rhyming pattern such as ABAB or AABB or ABCBC, etc. What you have here appears folded in half to fit the page. This is completely valid and I suspect it is so that larger fonts can be used for younger eyes? But it is done at the expense of losing a recognizable pattern. Critics might shred that. However, as long as the flow is smooth, I like it just fine.  For example, this... A Oh, please be kind and gentle B To the creatures that you eat. C Choose hens that come from happy farms B If you love your chicken meat. A Some hens are put in awful places B We call them factory farms. C They crowd them in so they can’t move B And cause the poor hens harm. A Most Some pigs which make the pork you eat B Spend lives in awful pain. C They live in dumps with concrete floors, B It really is a shame. A They put the mother in a crate B To feed the little piglets small. C Mum cannot turn, can hardly move. B It's no picnic at all! ...could be reformatted to AABB in a heptameter thusly: A Oh, please be kind and gentle to the creatures that you eat! A Choose hens that come from happy farms (if you love chicken meat). B Hens are put in awful places we call factory farms. B They crowd them in so they can’t move and cause the poor hens harm. A Pigs which make the pork you eat spend lives in awful pain. A They live in dumps with concrete floors (it really is a shame). B They put the mother in a crate to feed the piglets small. B Mum can't turn, can hardly move - it's no picnic at all!
This removes much of the chance that a reader will misinterpret the intended scansion, and will also hide non-rhymes. Here is an example where I reformatted shorter lines to fit a page size and the result made embedded rhymes at rhythmic pauses in each line. This was originally written as ABAB:
A I've drunk the cup of misery B In cruel, cold defeat
A I've danced the dance of victory B The vanquished at my feet
A And on a hundred beaches B I have sifted through the sand
A And felt the work of eons <<<< Ok, it doesn't rhyme. Sue me!
B Trickle through my open hand.
A I've lived in deprivation B And in splendored marble halls
A I've danced with grim starvation B And I've tasted nearly all
A The pleasures that great riches B Can procure at ransom's price
A And yet my soul still itches B For that one elusive vice:
Later, I needed to condense this 2-page section to fit a single page so I reformatted thusly, with the result that the line which didn't rhyme was now hidden. My ABAB turned into AABB and frankly, I like it better this way:
A I've drunk the cup of misery in cruel, cold defeat.
A I've danced the dance of victory, the vanquished at my feet.
B And on a hundred beaches I have sifted through the sand
B And felt the work of eons trickle through my open hand. <<< Poor rhyme hidden.
A I've lived in deprivation and in splendored marble halls.
A I've danced with grim starvation and I've tasted nearly all
B The pleasures that great riches can procure at ransom's price
B And yet my soul still itches for that one elusive vice:
Just something to consider. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2020 5:51:40 GMT
What an idea.Ron and Sphinx-Cameron. A poem about the environment. I'll think about that.
The problem I have BlueAndGold is that i have illustrated the book. I have about 16 illustrations, which took me ages as I drew them and then scanned them into my computer in order to paint them. I can only spend an hour a day on this kind of work as spendin longer puts my shoulder and back out(I am one very old woman, lol) plus until I got my waccom pen I was working with a mouse, so mmuch harder. Anyway I have 2 lines on each page opposite a cartoon illustration. I could just have one line on each page. What do you think? There are 32 pages in the book. However as a straight poem I agree with you. I was thinking of just writing simple prose but Ron suggested I stick with the poem. I think the simpler version (edited) is more suitable for 5-8 year old children. Both Kevin and my daughter suggested the original would be too difficult for little ones. I got the other version published in my local paper and am thinking of working on it a bit more (using your format AABB) and sending it off to "The Guardian". This national paper is very concerned with these kinds of issues.
Maybe I could even send The Guardian an environment poem Ron and Sphinx-Cameron.
Are 5-8 year old children too young for these kinds of issues?
Anyway thanks all.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 20, 2020 9:25:47 GMT
Lady Elizabeth,
In my experience what a child is ready for at certain ages varies with the child, but it's not going to warp their minds to begin learning [or being exposed to concepts] about the environment.
My three little ones were all walking by 8 months [their choice], the older two with slightly differing schedules on verbalization as well as the loo.
The oldest girl is beginning to explore the concept of death, since I'm a bit closer to my expiry date and my parents plus their siblings are all gone.
The younger girl is focused on catching up with her older sister [by 2.5 years] on learning activities while getting clearer with her words [gods help us all she sings at times, off key].
The 5 to 8 y.o. range should work for most kids, with some grasping the concepts a bit earlier while others may do so a bit later. You'll never know if you don't give the kids a chance to surprise you pleasantly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2020 9:37:52 GMT
Thank you Sphinx-Cameron. That is most reassuring.
I'm so glad I put the poem here for critique. Once again THANKS all.
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Post by ronmiller on Mar 20, 2020 12:32:43 GMT
What an idea.Ron and Sphinx-Cameron. A poem about the environment. I'll think about that. It could be a companion book to the first one.The problem I have BlueAndGold is that i have illustrated the book. I have about 16 illustrations, which took me ages as I drew them and then scanned them into my computer in order to paint them. I can only spend an hour a day on this kind of work as spendin longer puts my shoulder and back out(I am one very old woman, lol) plus until I got my waccom pen I was working with a mouse, so mmuch harder. Anyway I have 2 lines on each page opposite a cartoon illustration. I could just have one line on each page. What do you think? There are 32 pages in the book. However as a straight poem I agree with you. I was thinking of just writing simple prose but Ron suggested I stick with the poem. I think the simpler version (edited) is more suitable for 5-8 year old children. Both Kevin and my daughter suggested the original would be too difficult for little ones. I got the other version published in my local paper and am thinking of working on it a bit more (using your format AABB) and sending it off to "The Guardian". This national paper is very concerned with these kinds of issues. Maybe I could even send The Guardian an environment poem Ron and Sphinx-Cameron. Are 5-8 year old children too young for these kinds of issues? Not all all, if it is presented in language that is easy to understand and I think you are pretty good at doing that.Anyway thanks all. |
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 20, 2020 13:11:38 GMT
16 illustrations...
Perhaps 16 lines are called for then?
Or, perhaps a line-less introductory illustration as a title page, 14 lines of verse/illustrations for the interior and an ending illustration with a "Thank You" instead of a line of verse to finish up the 16 illustrations?
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 20, 2020 13:30:53 GMT
Umm... just playing around... Here are 14. Perhaps some rearranging to match the illustrations?
Oh, please be kind and gentle to the creatures that you eat. Choose hens that come from happy farms if you love chicken meat.
Hens are put in awful places we call factory farms. They crowd them in so they can’t move and cause the poor hens harm.
Pigs which make the pork you eat spend lives in awful pain. They live in dumps with concrete floors, it really is a shame.
They put the mother in a crate to feed the piglets small. Mum cannot turn, can hardly move, it's no picnic at all!
Sheep and cattle love outdoors beneath the warm sunshine
But some are kept in concrete yards and that is such a crime
The grass and flowers are the pastures where they romp and play But in the factory they do not dine on sweet green hay So let your conscience be your guide and don’t eat so much meat. Choose creatures from the better farms if flesh is what you eat.
Sorry, Larika. I do not mean to mess with your art. But you asked. 
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2020 13:56:57 GMT
I does look better BlueAndGold Thanks. I really think the child version is more suitable for young children. If I make it in Lulu the minimum is 32 pages but I can add other things, I'll have to think about it.
PS As you can see I am expecting to make it in Lulu. I made the first version 8.5X11in. in Micresoft Publisher and had no problems converting to a PDF. Then I made an A5 version in MP for Lulu but it wouldn't convert properly. The 2 page sspreads don't convert to PDF but the single page format does.
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