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Post by ronmiller on Aug 18, 2020 22:31:58 GMT
Well, in theory we are the publishers, but in reality, just the creators. I use Lulu ISBNs and it results in this >> www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0244315809/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tu00_p1_i0Scroll down to the details. Or I can just C & P Publisher: lulu.com (27 Dec. 2018) And to be honest you do not have to mention Lulu at all within your book, especially seeing as Lulu do not print them and via my just confuse. In what way are you not the publisher? All that Lulu does is manufacture and distribute the physical copies of your book. That is no different than Simon & Schuster contracting with a printer and distributor. |
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 18, 2020 22:39:02 GMT
Six major libraries are entitled, by law, to a free copy of every book published in the UK. A better term for the six is, "legal deposit libraries".
But not every book carries a copyright, and they may be entitled by law to get books, but I don't think there's any law to say that people have to give them a copy. There's also no need to, and nothing in law, at least in the UK, that says a copyright has to be registered. It's automatic, by international agreement, as soon as a copyright is typed or written on to a page, even a page that's not published.
RM True up to a point. In the US, any work is automatically copyrighted the moment it is created, whether it is published or not. So a book is copyrighted whether it carries a notice to that effect or not. But in order to defend that copyright, should that ever be necessary, the copyright needs to be registered (for good reason: it is the only way to prove your claim of priority). This is a simple and inexpensive process (at least in the US) and requires the deposit of one copy of a book with the Library of Congress. For traditionally published authors in the US, a publisher takes care of the paperwork and expense of registering the work in the author's name. |
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 18, 2020 22:41:30 GMT
When I used a free Lulu ISBN for my family history book last year, I contacted Lulu to ask who was therefore the publisher. They replied that I was the publisher. This is explained in a Lulu help page help.lulu.com/s/article/Lulu-FAQ?language=en_USSo, on the copyright page, I put: Published by <my name> Printed via www.lulu.comCopyright © 2019 - <my name> Then came the usual "All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced ... without the written permission of <my name>" And finally came Lulu's supplied ISBN. This sounds good...but the ISBN itself still identifies Lulu as the actual publisher...at least on paper. |
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 19, 2020 1:11:22 GMT
Interesting that when we use Lulu ISBNs, they are classed as the publisher, and Lulu are in the USA. I would have thought that applying an ISBN there is what some law says a book has to be handed over to the LoG. Do Lulu do that? because I know I don't and no one asks me to.
It's a puzzle because Lulu do not state that they are a publisher, but the ISBNs they give away have them registered as publishers at Ingrams.
There's also no need to hand a book with a Copyright to any organisation, and no need to register it even in the USA. But I understand that if one does not registered there, then you cannot open a court case against infringement.
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Post by Do Tell on Aug 19, 2020 1:26:08 GMT
As stated previous, in the US when you registers a copyright you send Library of Congress a copy, physical or electronical. Traditional Publishers do that as part of registering the author's copyright.
Lulu buys a hog butt ton of ISBNs, so is listed as publisher when you use one, though they don't register diddly squat flop for the author, they don't actually print a book, all they does do is send files to a printer maybe somewheres close to the buyer.
If you don't register a copyright in the US, you has an uphill fight proving someone infringed your work.
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 19, 2020 12:14:55 GMT
Interesting that when we use Lulu ISBNs, they are classed as the publisher, and Lulu are in the USA. I would have thought that applying an ISBN there is what some law says a book has to be handed over to the LoG. Do Lulu do that? because I know I don't and no one asks me to. It's a puzzle because Lulu do not state that they are a publisher, but the ISBNs they give away have them registered as publishers at Ingrams. There's also no need to hand a book with a Copyright to any organisation, and no need to register it even in the USA. But I understand that if one does not registered there, then you cannot open a court case against infringement. Obtaining an ISBN and registering a copyright are two entirely different, separate things. Sending a copy of a publication to the LoC is required only when registering a copyright. And you can include a copyright notice in your book without registering it. You are correct, however, in saying that a registered copyright is required if you want to defend your rights in court. It is the only acceptable proof of precedence. |
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 19, 2020 23:39:33 GMT
Interesting that when we use Lulu ISBNs, they are classed as the publisher, and Lulu are in the USA. I would have thought that applying an ISBN there is what some law says a book has to be handed over to the LoG. Do Lulu do that? because I know I don't and no one asks me to. It's a puzzle because Lulu do not state that they are a publisher, but the ISBNs they give away have them registered as publishers at Ingrams. There's also no need to hand a book with a Copyright to any organisation, and no need to register it even in the USA. But I understand that if one does not registered there, then you cannot open a court case against infringement. Obtaining an ISBN and registering a copyright are two entirely different, separate things.
Yes, you know I know that. Perhaps I should have included a space? Sending a copy of a publication to the LoC is required only when registering a copyright. And you can include a copyright notice in your book without registering it. You are correct, however, in saying that a registered copyright is required if you want to defend your rights in court. It is the only acceptable proof of precedence. |
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sirram
Senior Printer
No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money
Posts: 269
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Post by sirram on Aug 20, 2020 9:45:03 GMT
Here in the UK, things are much simpler. According to the UK Government website: " You get copyright protection automatically - you don’t have to apply or pay a fee. There isn’t a register of copyright works in the UK." See the full web page at www.gov.uk/copyright |
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 20, 2020 12:54:26 GMT
Here in the UK, things are much simpler. According to the UK Government website: " You get copyright protection automatically - you don’t have to apply or pay a fee. There isn’t a register of copyright works in the UK." See the full web page at www.gov.uk/copyrightIt might sound simpler but it actually makes things much more complicated should you have to defend your copyright. A registered copyright, such as we have here in the US, is accepted as indisputable and independent evidence of precedence. If you follow the links on the UK copyright page to its advice on defending one's rights, you can see how---since you are required to provide proof that your work was published before the infringing one (for instance, if all one has to go by is the notice and date published in a book, there is little stopping someone from backdating a book or MS and claiming precedence)---having an independently registered copyright makes things much easier and straightforward. And considering that the cost of registering a work is only $45, it's not an onerous investment. |
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 20, 2020 14:17:21 GMT
Here in the UK, things are much simpler. According to the UK Government website: " You get copyright protection automatically - you don’t have to apply or pay a fee. There isn’t a register of copyright works in the UK." See the full web page at www.gov.uk/copyright
There are independent bodies in the UK who you can register a Copyright with for a fee. But it's really pointless because they don't check if you actually have the right to register it. |
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 20, 2020 14:33:27 GMT
Here in the UK, things are much simpler. According to the UK Government website: " You get copyright protection automatically - you don’t have to apply or pay a fee. There isn’t a register of copyright works in the UK." See the full web page at www.gov.uk/copyrightIt might sound simpler but it actually makes things much more complicated should you have to defend your copyright. That is true, but it also helps if you have the cash to go through with the defence of a copyright. Few if any self-publishers do I would imagine! The cheap option is a Desist headed letter from a lawyer, but if that does not work, then ... A registered copyright, such as we have here in the US, is accepted as indisputable and independent evidence of precedence. What proof is required to prove one has the right to register the copyright? Very often that's the hardest thing to provide. It's not unheard of for someone to then contest that date as not being the first instance of its creation. If you follow the links on the UK copyright page to its advice on defending one's rights, you can see how---since you are required to provide proof that your work was published before the infringing one (for instance, if all one has to go by is the notice and date published in a book, there is little stopping someone from backdating a book or MS and claiming precedence)--- Indeed. For example, files on a PC are timestamped, but that time is updated every time a file is opened. Should a person always create a new file every time they work on a document? That's a bit impractical.having an independently registered copyright makes things much easier and straightforward. And considering that the cost of registering a work is only $45, it's not an onerous investment. Anyway, there's this advice >> www.gov.uk/defend-your-intellectual-property/take-legal-action I cannot find what it would cost to hire a lawyer as the last resort. The last time I enquired, which was around 30 years ago, was a specialised copyright lawyer who quoted £140 an hour. |
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 20, 2020 14:41:10 GMT
Here in the UK, things are much simpler. According to the UK Government website: " You get copyright protection automatically - you don’t have to apply or pay a fee. There isn’t a register of copyright works in the UK." See the full web page at www.gov.uk/copyright
There are independent bodies in the UK who you can register a Copyright with for a fee. But it's really pointless because they don't check if you actually have the right to register it.Yeah. There are similar outfits here, too...and their "copyrights" are worthless if push ever comes to shove. The so-called "poor man's copyright"---mailing yourself a copy of your work---was never given much legal standing here so far as I know. You are right in saying that the idea of one's work being copyrighted automatically being a world-wide custom. The trick is having to prove that your work originated with you. That's where registration becomes important. |
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 20, 2020 14:56:04 GMT
It might sound simpler but it actually makes things much more complicated should you have to defend your copyright. That is true, but it also helps if you have the cash to go through with the defence of a copyright. Few if any self-publishers do I would imagine! The cheap option is a Desist headed letter from a lawyer, but if that does not work, then ...RM True enough...but having a registered copyright would make defending a copyright a much simpler, more streamlined, more straightforward---and consequently less expensive process. And in the US, having a copyright registered is a prerequisite for bringing suit.
A registered copyright, such as we have here in the US, is accepted as indisputable and independent evidence of precedence. What proof is required to prove one has the right to register the copyright? Very often that's the hardest thing to provide. It's not unheard of for someone to then contest that date as not being the first instance of its creation.RM I don't think that any proof is required beyond the file copy. But making a false claim for copyright carries a severe fine and perhaps worse. If you would care to see what the US copyright registration form looks like, it is here Someone, as you say, could always contest the date, but they would have a very hard time proving that a book was actually created later than its filing, especially since a physical copy would be held by the LoC. If you follow the links on the UK copyright page to its advice on defending one's rights, you can see how---since you are required to provide proof that your work was published before the infringing one (for instance, if all one has to go by is the notice and date published in a book, there is little stopping someone from backdating a book or MS and claiming precedence)--- Indeed. For example, files on a PC are timestamped, but that time is updated every time a file is opened. Should a person always create a new file every time they work on a document? That's a bit impractical.having an independently registered copyright makes things much easier and straightforward. And considering that the cost of registering a work is only $45, it's not an onerous investment. Anyway, there's this advice >> www.gov.uk/defend-your-intellectual-property/take-legal-action I cannot find what it would cost to hire a lawyer as the last resort. The last time I enquired, which was around 30 years ago, was a specialised copyright lawyer who quoted £140 an hour.RM Fortunately, the only time I ever had to take someone to court for copyright infringement the attorney worked on contingency (mainly because I was part of a group of artists who were suing the same publisher). The defendant lost, by the way.
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 21, 2020 12:35:32 GMT
The US Copyright Office has an extremely helpful FAQ page, from which the following is excerpted--- When is my work protected?Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.Do I have to register with your office to be protected?No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within five years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration” and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works....the circular referred to includes this additional information: Applying a copyright notice to a work has not been required since March 1, 1989, but may still
provide practical and legal benefits. Notice typically consists of the copyright symbol or the word
“Copyright,” the name of the copyright owner, and the year of first publication. Placing a copyright
notice on a work is not a substitute for registration.It goes on later to elaborate on this: A copyright notice is a statement placed on copies or phonorecords of a work to inform the public that
a copyright owner is claiming ownership of the work. A copyright notice consists of three elements:
• The copyright symbol © or (p) for phonorecords, the word “Copyright,” or the abbreviation
“Copr.”;
• The year of first publication of the work (or of creation if the work is unpublished); and
• The name of the copyright owner, an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or a
generally known alternative designation.
A notice should be affixed to copies or phonorecords of a work in a way that gives reasonable
notice of the claim of copyright.
Using a copyright notice is optional for unpublished works, non-U.S. works, and works published
on or after March 1, 1989. However, notice conveys the following benefits:
• It puts potential users on notice that copyright is claimed in the work.
• For published works, notice may prevent a defendant from attempting to limit liability for
damages or injunctive relief based on an “innocent infringement” defense.
• It identifies the copyright owner at the time of first publication for parties seeking permission
to use the work.
• It identifies the year of first publication, which can be used to determine the term of copyright
for anonymous or pseudonymous works or works made for hire.
• It may prevent the work from becoming an “orphan” by identifying the copyright owner or
specifying the term of copyright. Orphan works are original works of authorship for which
prospective users cannot identify or locate copyright owners to request permission.
Notice was required for works published in the United States before March 1, 1989. Works published
without notice before that date may have entered the public domain in this country. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 13:48:18 GMT
Well, in theory we are the publishers, but in reality, just the creators. I use Lulu ISBNs and it results in this >> www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0244315809/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tu00_p1_i0Scroll down to the details. Or I can just C & P Publisher: lulu.com (27 Dec. 2018) And to be honest you do not have to mention Lulu at all within your book, especially seeing as Lulu do not print them and via my just confuse. In what way are you not the publisher? All that Lulu does is manufacture and distribute the physical copies of your book. That is no different than Simon & Schuster contracting with a printer and distributor. Ron, if you get a free Lulu ISBN number and you ask for global distribution, then the publisher shows as Lulu. All my books on Amazon have free Lulu ISBN numbers and show Lulu as the publisher. Stolen ----Elizabeth Keimach
Paperback: 208 pages
Publisher: lulu.com (5 Nov. 2014)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1326070037
ISBN-13: 978-1326070038
Product Dimensions: 14.8 x 1.2 x 21 cm |
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