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Post by tasmanianartist on Oct 28, 2020 1:09:33 GMT
Moderators/Admin - perhaps this forum could have one separate section where authors can share work - something that won't go into a book for publishing, or things of an amusing nature - like this 'ballad' from this potential 'bestseller' lulu.boards.net/post/7331
A 'Watercooler' section? Just for light entertainment? (Most of the forum centres on dark, dismal Lulu fail).
A Schriftdütsch Ballad is mostly a Germanic text, but there are Germanic people in this forum ...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 5:29:30 GMT
It would be nice to have some light entertainment. In our writers group we all look forward to one member's contribution because we know it will be humorous. I took German at school and passed all the exams in the subject, so maybe I too could understand the Schriftdütsch. PS I just looked up an example of a Schriftdütsch ballad. On second thoughts my schoolgirl German isn't quite up to it!  |
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Post by benziger on Oct 28, 2020 14:07:35 GMT
I don't know who wrote the English introduction. Only one thing is clear: I do not aggree with it. "Written German" in Switzerland is correct Standard German. It's sometimes even more correct than Standard German in Germany (especially when spoken) because the Swiss use it deliberately, while many Germans think they speak German anyway and then write their oral forms, which are then not always as accurate with grammar and dictionaries. "Written German" from Switzerland therefore sometimes seems a bit stilted.
What is introduced in the introduction as dialect words are correct German words that can be found in any good dictionary. These are expressions from the southern German-speaking area (which includes Switzerland). Sometimes they are also called Helvetisms. These are words of the standard language, some of which have a completely different name in dialect, but are only understood in Switzerland, Alsace, Baden, Württemberg, Voralberg, Liechtenstein, Swabia - just as I don't always understand German words that are mainly used in Vienna, Thuringia or Hamburg. The examples are poorly chosen. Of course, every Swiss learns at school that instead of "Geiss" he has to say "Ziege" (like the Germans). But "Geiss" (goat) is in the dictionary and even the famous writer Isaac Singer wrote a story called "Slatek the Geiss". Singer comes from the east, not the south...
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Post by benziger on Oct 28, 2020 14:15:13 GMT
On second thoughts my schoolgirl German isn't quite up to it! Larika, the text is not very demanding in terms of language. Maybe it will be easier for you if you have a bilingual version and can blink in English from time to time? The English version certainly does not meet literary standards, because it is a machine translation. Apparently the German software from Cologne also knows the "Geiss". I skimmed over it and adapted a single word by hand. | Southern Standard German | Automatic English translation | Das Wurmfräulein im Apfel, es fühlt sich wohl,
So lange es oben auf dem Baume thront.
Die Sonne scheint und der Baum ist sehr bewohnt.
Es summen die Bienen es zwitschern die Spatzen
Und alle sie schwatzen, schwatzen!
Der Wind er bläst und bläst
Hin und her geschüttelt wird es jetzt.
“Oh weh, oh weh wie mir wohl geschieht,
Wenn ich fall dahin wo die Menschen sind.
Nur die Äpfel fallen,
In der wir unsere Wohnung haben.
Aufgepasst es wird so kommen,
Denn ich hör ein Donnern und ein Grollen.
Da lieg ich nun am Boden und
Ich bin gekommen von weit oben.
In mein Häuschen krieche ich
Und warte was nun geschehen wird,
Bei dem Getöse und dem Wind.
Ich glaube, ich liege im hohen Gras,
Denn unter mir knabbert eine Maus.
Es müssen Mausekinder sein,
Denn eines schreit und weinet sehr.
Es piepst und es piepst
Doch es regnet und es giesst,
Dass das Wasser in the Mausewohnung fliesst.
Es gefällt mir gut im hohen Gras,
Auch werde ich ein kleiner Vielfrass.
Wo nur meine Mutter bleibt,
Ob sie noch auf dem Baume weilt?
Doch was kommt denn da daher,
Ist es eine Muh oder eine Mäh?
Es macht mir heiss
Weil ich nicht weiss
Was die mit mir macht die Geiss.
Wo nur meine Mutter bleibt?
Es wäre an der Zeit damit sie die Geiss vertreibt.
Das war ein Lärm und ein Mä-ä-ä,
Doch von meinen Äpfel fehlt ein Stück gar jäh!
Der Spatz da oben macht mir Sorgen,
Ich halt mich still sonst holt er mich zum z’Morgen.
Die Spinne hatte Pech, denn der Spatz flog mit ihr weg.
Plumps da liege ich am Boden.
Aus der Traum vom Wurm mit Bein und Arm.
Wie wär es schön zu sein
Eine Kreatur mit Arm und Bein!”
Asle, 1983 | The worm lady in the apple, it feels good,
As long as it is enthroned on top of the tree.
The sun is shining and the tree is very inhabited.
The bees hum and the sparrows chirp
And they all chatter, chatter!
The wind it blows and blows
It is now shaken back and forth.
"Oh dear, oh dear, how I wonder,
When I fall where the people are.
Only the apples fall,
Where we have our flat.
Watch out, it's gonna happen,
For I hear a thunder and a rumble.
So there I am lying on the ground and
I have come from far above.
I crawl into my little house
And wait and see what will happen now,
With the noise and the wind.
I think I'm lying in the high grass,
Because a mouse is nibbling under me.
It must be mouse children,
Because one thing screams and cries a lot.
It beeps and it beeps
But it rains and it pours,
That the water flows in the mouse dwelling.
I like it well in the high grass,
I am also becoming a small wolverine.
Where only my mother stays,
I wonder if she is still on the tree?
But what comes along,
Is it a moo or a mow?
It makes me hot
Because I do not know
What the goat is doing to me.
Where only my mother is?
It's time for her to drive the goat away.
That was a racket and a maaaah!
But a piece of my apples is suddenly missing!
The sparrow up there worries me,
I keep still or he will take me to the breakfast.
The spider was unlucky, because the sparrow flew away with him.
Plops there I lie on the ground.
From the dream of the worm with leg and arm.
How would it be nice to be
A creature with arms and legs!"
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) |
Wenn ich Zeit hätte und malen könnte... das gäbe doch ein schönes Bilderbuch für Kinder im Alter 4-8. |
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Post by ronmiller on Oct 28, 2020 14:18:49 GMT
Moderators/Admin - perhaps this forum could have one separate section where authors can share work - something that won't go into a book for publishing, or things of an amusing nature - like this 'ballad' from this potential 'bestseller' lulu.boards.net/post/7331
A 'Watercooler' section? Just for light entertainment? (Most of the forum centres on dark, dismal Lulu fail).
A Schriftdütsch Ballad is mostly a Germanic text, but there are Germanic people in this forum ...
This idea has my vote. |
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sirram
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No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money
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Post by sirram on Oct 28, 2020 15:09:59 GMT
... I took German at school and passed all the exams in the subject, so maybe I too could understand the Schriftdütsch ... I studied Latin, French and German, albeit with the occasional struggle. One German lesson included, "Das Spiegelei liegt auf dem Boden", which roughly translates as "the fried egg lies on the floor". I have waited decades for an opportunity to use that phrase. |
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Post by tasmanianartist on Oct 28, 2020 23:22:23 GMT
I don't know who wrote the English introduction. Only one thing is clear: I do not aggree with it. "Written German" in Switzerland is correct Standard German. It's sometimes even more correct than Standard German in Germany (especially when spoken) because the Swiss use it deliberately, while many Germans think they speak German anyway and then write their oral forms, which are then not always as accurate with grammar and dictionaries. "Written German" from Switzerland therefore sometimes seems a bit stilted. What is introduced in the introduction as dialect words are correct German words that can be found in any good dictionary. These are expressions from the southern German-speaking area (which includes Switzerland). Sometimes they are also called Helvetisms. These are words of the standard language, some of which have a completely different name in dialect, but are only understood in Switzerland, Alsace, Baden, Württemberg, Voralberg, Liechtenstein, Swabia - just as I don't always understand German words that are mainly used in Vienna, Thuringia or Hamburg. The examples are poorly chosen. Of course, every Swiss learns at school that instead of "Geiss" he has to say "Ziege" (like the Germans). But "Geiss" (goat) is in the dictionary and even the famous writer Isaac Singer wrote a story called "Slatek the Geiss". Singer comes from the east, not the south... benziger Asle was my mother - I wrote the introduction. I chose 2 words from the 'Schwizerdütsch' Ballad. The other one I chose, ' übercho', can make German speakers (speakers of non-Alemannish High German) cringe: (uf Dialäkt) ... Ich han en Öpfel übercho ... (auf Schriftdeutsch): ... Ich habe einen Apfel bekommen (that's how a country bumkin from the Berner Oberland would write it in a letter to his cousin in Hamburg - it is correct in grammar and spelling) ... The High German speaker would say ... Ich habe einen Apfel erhalten ... and so it goes. When dialects differ from village to village, there are just as many 'understandings' of how dialect ought to be presented. (In English: I have received an Apple).
Standard German (grammar and spelling) might be correct within Schriftdütsch; however, the word choice and composition of sentences betrays a dialect speaker, unless said dialekt speaker is truly fluent in modern High German - for a Swiss (at least for me and those Swiss I still know), Schwizerdütsch and High German are 2 different languages - we are dual-language speakers.
Geiss is an old Germanic word, as is Ross (for horse); they prevail in daily 'speak' in the dialect (Alemannish) regions, but are not used very often in today's High German texts, unless it is within a sonnet, a poem, a song, etc, as such words are now reserved for dialect speakers, or poets. (Not much room left for such old words as the dictionary now bulges with internet references).
A northern German radio station rang me in Tasmania for an interview because I had somewhat of an unusual reputation as Karl May translator - when asked about where I live, I said 'Auf einer Farm mit meinen Geissen' ... the interviewer asked ... 'was sind Geissen'? Evidently, he had no dictionary handy.
I don't understand Viennese, either ... ;-) ... yet - any of the Alemannish dialects, when written down, are suddenly understood. Tho I think Viennese has much Bohemian influence in its vocab.
Many thanks for the translation, love it. Especially 'Vielfrass' to 'Wolverine' ... that is too funny. I don't think my mother had any incling that the commonly used word 'Vielfrass' for people/animals who over-eat, is also the German name for 'Wolverine'. That's where mechanical translation can fail. In general, the translation is not bad, tho the finer points (I know the finer points in this case, as I know what my mother was trying to say) have slipped under the carpet - and others are too obscure, like the 'Mäh' - that being the sound a 'Geiss' makes, and is 'baby-talk' for 'Geiss' (not 'Mow'). Like in English, a woof-woof is a dog, or a quack-quack is a duck (see Old MacDonald's Farm).
I'll have a go at tweaking it - it is a bit awkward in places. ... I have often thought of turning it into a 'real' book (not just a Sfr100,000 swindle), but with arthritis in the hands not even the thick stilus on wacom tablet will allow me to create a series of drawings - after a few minutes, the joints are on fire, and sometimes I have to prise away my fingers from the implement with the other hand, as the joints locked around it. I have turned my attention to macro photography of my flowers and plants and insects to create my textile arty-farty stuff. Pressing buttons and operating a ball mouse still works.
If you think you can turn it into a book PM me ...
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Post by tasmanianartist on Oct 28, 2020 23:38:03 GMT
... I took German at school and passed all the exams in the subject, so maybe I too could understand the Schriftdütsch ... I studied Latin, French and German, albeit with the occasional struggle. One German lesson included, "Das Spiegelei liegt auf dem Boden", which roughly translates as "the fried egg lies on the floor". I have waited decades for an opportunity to use that phrase.
Haa, hahaha, perfect thread to place the Spiegelei. Or the other 'Spiegelei' Spiegelei.pdf (39.49 KB) so nicely explained by Goethe. Then, there is the 'Eulenspiegelei' Eulenspiegelei.pdf (34.1 KB) ... one wonders what it is that lies on the floor.
Here is a Schwizerdütsch masterpiece: 'Chuchichäschtli' - get your teeth into this one ;-)
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Post by tasmanianartist on Oct 29, 2020 2:03:45 GMT
...pause... I spent about 40 mins tweaking the ballad, for the text to resemble the meaning my mother wanted to get across. Especially the last sentence is a little ambiguous ... about the nice thought of being a creature with arms and legs, or the thought that a creature with arms and legs is beautiful. From the point of view of a worm, they are just about interchangeable.
The original Schwizerdütsch rhymes (somewhat and occasionally - it is not a masterpiece), but the English translation is purely a transliteration to get the meaning of each line - no attempt at any English rhyming or metering has been made ... and this English translation is not intended for publication other than in this forum thread.
The worm lady in the apple, she feels good,
As long as she thrones atop the tree.
The sun is shining and the tree is very populated.
The bees they hum and the sparrows they chirp
And they all chatter, chatter!
The wind it blows and blows
Now back and forth a shaking.
"Oh woe, oh woe what will befall me,
When I drop to where the people are.
Only those apples fall,
In which we have our abode.
Beware, so it will happen,
For I hear a thundering and a rumbling.
So now I am lying on the ground and
I have come from far above.
I crawl into my little house
And await what will happen now,
During this noise and this wind.
I believe I am lying in the high grass,
Because under me, a mouse is nibbling away.
There must be mouse children,
Because one of them screams and cries a lot.
It squeaks and it squeals
But it rains and it pours,
So that the water flows into the mouse dwelling.
I like it well in the high grass,
I am also turning into a little glutton.
Where could my mother possibly be,
Would she have stayed on top of the tree?
But what is coming my way,
Is it a moo or a maa?
I feel dreadfully afraid
Because I do not know
What the goat is doing to me.
Where is my mother?
It would be time for her to drive the goat away.
That was a racket and a maah,
But a piece of my apple is missing, oh my!
The sparrow up there is worrying me,
I keep still or he will have me for breakfast.
The spider was unlucky, because the sparrow flew away with her.
Plops there I lie on the ground.
Over is the dream of the worm with leg and arm.
How nice the thought of being
A creature with arm and leg!"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2020 5:46:11 GMT
Larika, the text is not very demanding in terms of language. Maybe it will be easier for you if you have a bilingual version and can blink in English from time to time?
Thanks benziger, I "blinked in English" quite often but I was able to read it. I also enjoyed your translation tasmanianartist. I'm so sorry you can't make your mother's dream come true and turn it into a "real book." I expect that rotter who swindled your mother also swindled many others. I hope he got caught and was made to pay for his fraudulent ways.
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Post by tasmanianartist on Oct 29, 2020 7:04:32 GMT
larika - at the time I was living downunder and had no idea. She kept it to herself, and told me only many years later. Such is life.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2020 7:58:51 GMT
I noticed you have a book about bats at Halloween in your shop tasmanianartist My Grandchild telephoned me and told me she was dressing up as a skeleton, her mum was going to be a witch and my son, her dad, was going to wear a bat costume. For years I had been rather afraid of bats. I had heard that they'd cling to your ears, stick in your hair and drink your blood. Yesterday I watched a programme about these night-time mammals. I was fascinated to learn the truth about bats from dedicated scientists who destroyed these myths. For many years bats were associated with evil. Angels had bird wings but devils had bat wings. These peaceful creatures became demonized. Bats are quite remarkable animals worthy of our interest and respect. They are the only mammals capable of controlled flight and their aerobatic skills have to be seen to be believed! They eat insects and many farmers and gardeners consider them very valuable as they seek to reduce insect numbers, as some insects can cause damage to valuable crops and flowers. Without bats our insect population would become enormous. I had to laugh at this post on YouTube though, it was a video about bats and included a segment of them having sex, "This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Terms of Service." |
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Post by BlueAndGold on Oct 31, 2020 15:07:50 GMT
I love my bats! In the summer I am usually outside at dusk and after. I have several bats that flit and swoop through my backyard shortly after sunset when the last robin has gone to bed. They fly within two feet of my head and they make no sound of airflow in their flight. You can always hear a bird's feathers but you can never hear a bat!
I see bats at my spot over 10,000 feet in elevation too. Awesome little creatures!
I would much rather have bats than mosquitoes. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 17:21:27 GMT
I love my bats! In the summer I am usually outside at dusk and after. I have several bats that flit and swoop through my backyard shortly after sunset when the last robin has gone to bed. They fly within two feet of my head and they make no sound of airflow in their flight. You can always hear a bird's feathers but you can never hear a bat!
I see bats at my spot over 10,000 feet in elevation too. Awesome little creatures!
I would much rather have bats than mosquitoes. What? I would move. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Oct 31, 2020 17:27:09 GMT
There's a cave north of our house, home to a large number of bats. It's nice to see them as they spread out in a stream then disperse to hunt insects.
A better way to deal with flying insects than indiscriminate pesticides which tend to poison people as well.
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