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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 18, 2021 21:12:26 GMT
I was appalled to learn of the lack of quality in POD hardback book production from the Barnes & Noble print contractor.
I had to see for myself. In the photograph below, you see a closeup of the bindings of two hardbacks of the same title, printed near the same time.
On the left you see the Barnes & Noble copy. On the right is the copy produced by Lulu.
Note that the B&N copy on the left is a simple glue job just like a paperback, whereas the Lulu copy is a nice stitched binding for which the purchaser paid. Also note that the B&N copy is printed on lower quality paper which is of a yellow (cream) color and of lower paperback quality, whereas the Lulu copy is beautiful, bright and white, for which the purchaser paid.
Both copies cost the same. Who got the greater value?
It should be noted also that the color saturation on the cover of the B&N copy is weak and gray instead of deep black, and there is print-through showing on both front and back that it was a "re-do". Terrible quality!
This is Embarrassing to Blue and Gold Publishing. We will forthwith recommend all customers to purchase their hardback books from Lulu.
On the left you see the Barnes & Noble copy. On the right is the copy produced by Lulu.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 18, 2021 21:34:25 GMT
Here are two images showing the ghosting on the B&N cover. It is easy to see a ghost image of the spine running up the back of the book. On the front it is easy to see where there was an original registration error as well (black stripe). I am appalled that B&N's printer's quality people let this out the door.
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Post by ronmiller on Jan 19, 2021 0:07:45 GMT
To be honest, I can't really tell for sure whether or not the Lulu book is actually a Smyth sewn binding. Are the individual signatures stitched?
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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 19, 2021 2:05:41 GMT
To be honest, I can't really tell for sure whether or not the Lulu book is actually a Smyth sewn binding. Are the individual signatures stitched?
Oh, my! Your comment got me more curious so I got out some bright lights and magnifiers and gave the Lulu copy a close examination. NO! It is NOT stitched! It too is glued as a paperback but at least it is glued to a cloth backing. The additional white frilly parts at each end of the spine only extend about 3/4 inch into the back. This gave me the illusion of stitching.
Sorry about that. I have edited the original post to cross out the "stitched" part. Sighhh...
Ah, well. Crow tastes sort of like chicken!
However, the fact remains that the Lulu product is head and shoulders above the B&N product in overall quality. I'd never buy a POD Hardback from B&N after seeing this example.
Buy Lulu!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 5:15:23 GMT
Buy Lulu!Well from your examples BlueAndGold I can see why you are recommending Lulu. However I fear people will avoid Lulu because of their disastrous update. They've just gone
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 5:43:42 GMT
To be honest, I can't really tell for sure whether or not the Lulu book is actually a Smyth sewn binding. Are the individual signatures stitched?
Oh, my! Your comment got me more curious so I got out some bright lights and magnifiers and gave the Lulu copy a close examination. NO! It is NOT stitched! It too is glued as a paperback but at least it is glued to a cloth backing. The additional white frilly parts at each end of the spine only extend about 3/4 inch into the back. This gave me the illusion of stitching.
Sorry about that. I have edited the original post to cross out the "stitched" part. Sighhh...
Ah, well. Crow tastes sort of like chicken!
However, the fact remains that the Lulu product is head and shoulders above the B&N product in overall quality. I'd never buy a POD Hardback from B&N after seeing this example.
Buy Lulu! As I had understood it Lulu sends out the book PDF files and other distributors use their own printers when there's a purchase. So the only way to ensure you get Lulu-quality printed books is to buy directly from the Lulu website.
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Post by Ken on Jan 19, 2021 12:00:41 GMT
But Lulu DO NOT print books. Nor do they have any capability to do so or machines to use.
My guess would be you just a singular bad day with B&N as all POD producers use similar machines.
By the way I’m not aware of any POD machines using Smyth sewn binding, but I’m willing to be proved wrong.
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Post by ronmiller on Jan 19, 2021 12:40:37 GMT
I think that Maggie nailed it.
Consistent quality from one copy of a book to another is a difficulty probably inherent in the nature of POD. In traditional printing, for instance, all copies of a book are run off the same machine at the same time. Once a quality check is made during setup (and print proofs made), every book is going to be identical...and quality checks can be made even during the print run if necessary. In POD, there may be a hundred different books created by the same machine between two copies of yours...even if you order a printed proof there may be any number of other books being printed by the machine in the meantime...and each copy of your book may actually be produced by an entirely different machine. Probably the only way to really avoid this would be to print every copy of a POD book at the same time...but this would run counter to the entire idea of POD, let alone be prohibitively costly to the author.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 19, 2021 13:14:13 GMT
May some day I will knuckle under and approach a traditional publisher.
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Post by Ken on Jan 19, 2021 13:30:39 GMT
In traditional printing, for instance, all copies of a book are run off the same machine at the same time.
Not quite right, but close. It depends upon the capacity each printer has in their own facility and in others.
A printer will produce plates for signatures. Do not confuse spreads with signatures.
For example an 8 page signature will enable on sheet of paper to have eight pages printed on it. A second plate for a further 8 pages will then enable those already printed signatures to be fed through another machine, or the same one later to print the reverse sides of those pages. For a 1,000 books (not pages) the printer will end up with stacks of 1,000 sheets, or more for wastage or larger quantities. These sheets will be folded, guilotined, cropped and bundled ready for stitching.
It may be expedient for one printer to contract some printing even some operations to produce batches of books. For example covers may be manufacture elsewhere or printed on different presses with different inks.
In these cases there is regular quality control from inspecting a single page to the final ready to sell book.
Print on Demand use digital printers that are the equivalent to giant laser printers where the printing, folding, stitching and binding are part of one continuous process for one book at a time.
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Post by Ken on Jan 19, 2021 13:34:39 GMT
May some day I will knuckle under and approach a traditional publisher. Start saving your pennies! But seriously there is no reason why you shouldn’t organize a visit to a professional print company and let them show you the processes. In fact I’m surprised that few here have done so.
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Post by ronmiller on Jan 19, 2021 13:40:07 GMT
May some day I will knuckle under and approach a traditional publisher. There are many advantages to traditional publishing, of course. But, that being said, it is not necessarily the best course to take for every book. For one thing, the author needs to consider the potential market for their book. Self-publishing is often the very best way to go. The decision also depends a lot on the author's personal motives and goals. But if one of those goals is to make a profit (as opposed to publishing for the fun of it, say), the author needs to weigh the eventual costs involved in producing a book of equal quality to a traditionally published one. After all, every expense involved will need to come out of their own pockets. One can cut corners in all sorts of ways, of course, but that often means compromising quality. One of the obvious advantages of pursuing a traditional publisher is that the author is not expected to invest a single penny. The publisher absorbs all the costs of publishing the book, from providing professional editing, design and cover art to printing, marketing and distribution. To take just one example from marketing, a publisher can send out dozens of promotional copies of a book to reviewers and others, something that would probably be prohibitively expensive for the DIY author. Additionally, the author is paid an advance against royalties, money that never has to be returned even if the book never sells a single copy (god forbid). So, if you think you have a marketable book it is worth not eliminating traditional publishing until after at least making a fair attempt at it. One thing to not do is eliminate traditional publishing because of a lot of old wive's tales about it. For instance, that publishers will rewrite your book, that you will lose your rights to it, that publishers are only interested in experienced authors, etc....none of which are true.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jan 19, 2021 13:58:28 GMT
While a writer doesn't invest money directly when Traditional Publishing is involved, by the same token the time put into the work is akin to an investment, as is the time taken to learn enough to present a cogent readable piece.
Another example is it doesn't matter how good a writer is if he / she / ze doesn't understand how to write a query letter or a synopsis short enough to not glaze eyes while still engaging interest in the work. Ron showed me examples on how to construct a query letter or synopsis, and it was good advice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 4:39:34 GMT
May some day I will knuckle under and approach a traditional publisher. Go for it BlueAndGold. You write excellent poetry.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 20, 2021 12:55:29 GMT
Maybe some day I will retire from the rat race and have time to approach a traditional publisher.
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