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Post by potet on Apr 11, 2023 16:21:05 GMT
In France, the age of consent has been 15 for half a century, but many do not seem to be aware of it. It seems 18 is the age enforced now as in all the satellite countries of the United States of America.
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Post by potet on Apr 11, 2023 16:24:33 GMT
Have you let the average YA view your missive yet? It could surprise you. So far I have had no opportunity to have my drafts read by an 18+ volunteer. The members of my family who are in this age bracket simply do not read at all.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Apr 11, 2023 17:35:07 GMT
In France, the age of consent has been 15 for half a century, but many do not seem to be aware of it. It seem 18 is the age enforced now as in all the satellite countries of the United States of America. Article 227-25 of the Penal Code [France] specifies Age of Consent at age 15, which leads me to suspect something else may be driving age 18 enforcement.
The US federal age of consent of 18 is in part to discourage sexual exploitation of young people in one jurisdiction by adults in another [i.e.: transporting a minor from an age 18 consent jurisdiction to an age 16 consent jurisdiction solely for the purpose of sex]. It also applies to US citizens in other countries, even though the other country may have an age of consent at 14, 15, or lower [in some countries it's 13 or 14]. The law is meant to discourage US citizens from engaging in sexual tourism targeting minors in other countries as they can be charged with a federal crime upon reentry to the US.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Apr 12, 2023 0:43:00 GMT
Things change. YA fiction now is nothing like how it used to be. I think someone eventually realised that in most countries they can legally have sex at 16. And note I say legally ... Although the age divisions at Lulu and Amazon are still a bit old fashioned, and I expect at most other American SP places also. There's a bit of a fuss in the UK about some schools considering showing porn. Reason being is sociological I think. Showing the good the bad and the ugly side of sex and how sex and women are often portrayed, and how they should be. There's even talk of teaching sex to starting at the age of five, and even explaining all the different genders there seems to be now. Helps to stop them growing confused I suppose. In reality the 'human male is always 46XY and human female is always 46XX' is not the fast and certain rule many people would like to think it is, just as genders [the mental aspect] isn't what so many would like to believe.
Off the top of my head in addition to 46XY and 46XX you have 45X, 46XY CAIS [Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome where the individual is sterile but appears female from birth], 46XY AIS [Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome marked by a sliding scale of intersex characteristics], 46XY Female [reason for developing as female unknown], 46XX Male [reason for developing as male unknown], 47XXY, 47XYY, 46XY SRY-negative [meaning the SRY gene is missing or disabled so the fetus develops as female], 46XX SRY-positive [one X carries the SRY gene meaning the fetus develops as male], and there are others I'm certainly not aware of. Apart from the fact that females seem to age mentally sooner than males, I am not sure what the above has got to do with it? Although an advertising exec, a long time ago, told me they categorise in to 7 genders.
Regarding legal sex in the US, the age of consent depends on the state and currently ranges from 16 to 18 with some exceptions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_StatesA lot of the age brackets in the USA are to do with the power of the religious organisations. But also do to with advertisers, when it comes to TV etc. The producers don't want to put them off. Although that's changing a lot now that many streaming companies don't rely on advertising revenue.
The reason for restrictions on YA adult literature is due to the fact the US federal age of consent is 18, meaning 'children' being exposed to frank discussions on sex is frowned upon.
The main reason for it being 16 in the UK is they don't want young girls being 'troubled' by raising a baby, while still at school. 16 is the age many in the UK leave school. But basically, it's like many laws, they only count if you get caught. At one time, if two under the age of consent are caught, or end up with a baby, which makes it obvious they have been at it, the male could have ended up in prison, which must have been unfair on the mother of his baby. Nowadays they get a jolly good official telling off. It's a different matter if someone over 16 has sex with someone under 16. The over 16 person will end up in prison, and added to a list of known pedios. Although often that does not count if the over age person is a female. I am of course on about teenagers. Under that age it is a def no no. But, in the UK the age has changed over the years, from none, to 12, to 13, then 16. In some countries they seem to have no rules at all.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Apr 12, 2023 0:44:56 GMT
Have you let the average YA view your missive yet? It could surprise you. So far I have had no opportunity to have my drafts read by an 18+ volunteer. The members of my family who are in this age bracket simply do not read at all. So no one under 18 also then? Or 16 even.
But indeed, not many people do read books for pleasure. That's not to say they don't read at all.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Apr 12, 2023 0:48:56 GMT
In France, the age of consent has been 15 for half a century, but many do not seem to be aware of it. It seem 18 is the age enforced now as in all the satellite countries of the United States of America. Article 227-25 of the Penal Code [France] specifies Age of Consent at age 15, which leads me to suspect something else may be driving age 18 enforcement.
The US federal age of consent of 18 is in part to discourage sexual exploitation of young people in one jurisdiction by adults in another [i.e.: transporting a minor from an age 18 consent jurisdiction to an age 16 consent jurisdiction solely for the purpose of sex]. It also applies to US citizens in other countries, even though the other country may have an age of consent at 14, 15, or lower [in some countries it's 13 or 14]. The law is meant to discourage US citizens from engaging in sexual tourism targeting minors in other countries as they can be charged with a federal crime upon reentry to the US.
The age of 18 is to do with the right to vote, or get married without parents' permission even. In the UK it used to be 21 for that marriage law. It's somewhat ironic that you can join the armed forces at 16, to fight for a country you don't yet have the right to vote for representation in.
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Post by potet on Apr 12, 2023 9:37:45 GMT
When I was in grammar-school, bold movies were forbidden to people under 16. Now the age has been hiked up to 18.
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Post by potet on Apr 12, 2023 9:41:12 GMT
I suppose legislators give ages (13, 15, 16, 18) because they cannot accept puberty as a legal concept, otherwise it would be more convenient to say "before puberty", "once pubescent", etc.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Apr 12, 2023 15:00:39 GMT
I suppose legislators give ages (13, 15, 16, 18) because they cannot accept puberty as a legal concept, otherwise it would be more convenient to say "before puberty", "once pubescent", etc. There is a problem with using puberty as a legal age for consent, part of the problem being variable timing. The average age for girls to start puberty is 11 while for boys it's 12, but that's the 'average'. The reality is puberty can normally start at any time between age 8 and 13 for girls versus 9 and 14 for boys. Factor in early or delayed puberty and it gets more problematic.
Another part of the problem is the physical toll of pregnancy and childbirth, it's hard enough on women age 18 and older but even rougher on girls 17 and younger.
Then you get into the ability people have to make rational decisions and choices: a child from the mid-1800s would have a very different mindset depending on the area and social strata lived in while growing up which in some ways is true enough for a child of the present. The main difference between a kid of the mid-1800s and one from the present is the former often had to start taking on adult responsibilities far earlier than the later.
The seemingly arbitrary ages when people are legally allowed to engage in various activities often boils down to compromises based on average times people can be reasonably expected to be able to make a sound decision or choice.
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Post by potet on Apr 12, 2023 19:12:00 GMT
To me, ignoring puberty reveals that legislators reject nature and indulge in abstract views of humanity.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Apr 12, 2023 22:33:20 GMT
To me, ignoring puberty reveals that legislators reject nature and indulge in abstract views of humanity. As previously mentioned puberty happens to different people at different ages. Suppose legislators changed the laws to base things like age of consent or marriage age on when someone went through puberty.
Not so long ago I read a report about a child who at around age 2 went through precocious puberty. Her mother took her to the hospital due to a bloody diaper and was shocked when she found out her toddler daughter had had her first period while wearing diapers and having potty training.
How would laws based on puberty meant to determine when a person can legally do things affect the child in question? Whether puberty happens at age 2, or 7, 8, 12, or 13, does every person alive have the same ability to reason and make rational adult decisions?
Legislators aren't ignoring nature, they're accepting the reality that physical development and mental development aren't the same thing. I've met 12-year-olds who showed more mental maturity and rationality than some 30 to 40-year-olds, but it doesn't mean they should be able to everything an adult should because some mistakes have consequences which can last a lifetime.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Apr 12, 2023 23:39:46 GMT
I suppose legislators give ages (13, 15, 16, 18) because they cannot accept puberty as a legal concept, otherwise it would be more convenient to say "before puberty", "once pubescent", etc. At one time it was due to survival. Peasants needed their offspring to help create food and whatnot ASAP. And there was no schools. It was also not unusual for them to get married at 12. Birth control for 1,000s of years was already being pregnant. And royals used to get hitched to children from some other royal house to sort of merge for greater power. It's always an advantage if that kid is not too young though. Ages were raised when some considered lower ages to be wrong, and later because it was statutory to go to school. The voting age has always been a compromise. It was not really that far back that you could only vote if you owned a house. Few did. Oh, and it helped if you were male also. The age of puberty cannot be used, that too has to be a compromise. It varies so much. I think the youngest known person to have a baby in recent years was a 10 year old Brazilian who had been raped.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Apr 13, 2023 0:56:29 GMT
The youngest mother on record, gave birth on 14 May 1939, aged five years, seven months, and 21 days, likely due to precocious puberty. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Apr 13, 2023 23:51:42 GMT
The youngest mother on record, gave birth on 14 May 1939, aged five years, seven months, and 21 days, likely due to precocious puberty. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_MedinaThat's astonishing. If true. The internet thinks it is, but it was a long time ago and leads to many biological questions that do not seem to be on the internet. But I will not ask them here! There's a big retrospective scandal in Southern (mostly I think) Ireland. Highly Roman Catholic with schools, hospitals and other such establishments run by devout nuns, even more so in the past. The RC method of conception of course led to a lot of unmarried mothers, often teenagers. The scandal is that the nuns took the babies away. Usually forcibly. Never to be heard of again by the mothers. And the act ended relatively recently.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Apr 14, 2023 1:27:39 GMT
The youngest mother on record, gave birth on 14 May 1939, aged five years, seven months, and 21 days, likely due to precocious puberty. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_MedinaThat's astonishing. If true. The internet thinks it is, but it was a long time ago and leads to many biological questions that do not seem to be on the internet. But I will not ask them here! There's a big retrospective scandal in Southern (mostly I think) Ireland. Highly Roman Catholic with schools, hospitals and other such establishments run by devout nuns, even more so in the past. The RC method of conception of course led to a lot of unmarried mothers, often teenagers. The scandal is that the nuns took the babies away. Usually forcibly. Never to be heard of again by the mothers. And the act ended relatively recently. Extreme Precocious Puberty has been documented, and the medical terminology in texts on the subject may be a bit dry so if you know a physician or biologist the explanation might not be as tedious. The simplest way I know of putting it is a person becomes sexually mature far younger than normal because nature has a twisted sense of humor.
Apart from that the fact you have offspring leads me to suspect you understand the human procreation aspect per cause and effect.
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