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Post by potet on Sept 26, 2023 17:35:14 GMT
Potet actually didn't state what you think he did. He mentioned a specific past tense used in writing French but not normally used spoken French. French, like Spanish [among others] has verb tenses you might use in writing, speaking, or only in writing, or only in speaking, or both writing and speaking.
As I told a judge decades ago [when I acted as a pro bono interpreter, long story], interpreting between English and Spanish is normally not a one-for-one word match from one language to another and back.
I believe England is well acquainted with the concept of 'little education': you have people educated to enter the trades versus people educated to go to college. Potet can correct me if I'm wrong about the point.
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Post by potet on Sept 26, 2023 17:43:26 GMT
Cameron wrote: "Potet actually didn't state what you think he did. He mentioned a specific past tense used in writing French but not normally used spoken French. French, like Spanish [among others] has verb tenses you might use in writing, speaking, or only in writing, or only in speaking, or both writing and speaking. www.busuu.com/en/french/tensesAs I told a judge decades ago [when I acted as a pro bono interpreter, long story], interpreting between English and Spanish is normally not a one-for-one word match from one language to another and back. I believe England is well acquainted with the concept of 'little education': you have people educated to enter the trades versus people educated to go to college. Potet can correct me if I'm wrong about the point." Yes, this is what I meant. Thanks a lot, Cameron.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 26, 2023 23:23:04 GMT
I find it hard to believe that it's possible for anyone to speak without using past tense. It would be confusing. "I look at that" ? when I looked at it last week? ("I looked at that"). I see no difference between speaking and writing. What about reading? And what do you call little education? It's basic education, schooled and acquired (which is past tense ). What you say is an insult to the French education system! Potet actually didn't state what you think he did. He mentioned a specific past tense used in writing French but not normally used spoken French. French, like Spanish [among others] has verb tenses you might use in writing, speaking, or only in writing, or only in speaking, or both writing and speaking.
Then the question is, why? Tenses are quite simple, why complicate them.
As I told a judge decades ago [when I acted as a pro bono interpreter, long story], interpreting between English and Spanish is normally not a one-for-one word match from one language to another and back.
I believe England is well acquainted with the concept of 'little education': you have people educated to enter the trades versus people educated to go to college. Potet can correct me if I'm wrong about the point.
There's still the basic level of education, which starts in schools at the age of 5. Few need a Masters B.ed. in English. The UK does not educate people in schools for specific trades. It's all general. It's not Russia. if people wish to go to further education they are welcome to do so, at huge cost. College entry expects a few extra qualifications to be gained, which students stay an extra year in school to get. Public Schools depend on the wealth a parent has. As to trades, often it's an employer who gives training in those.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 26, 2023 23:39:02 GMT
I find it hard to believe that it's possible for anyone to speak without using past tense. It would be confusing. "I look at that" ? when I looked at it last week? ("I looked at that"). I see no difference between speaking and writing. What about reading? And what do you call little education? It's basic education, schooled and acquired (which is past tense ). What you say is an insult to the French education system! The French educational system, that used to be among the best in the world, has been declining over the past few decades because the people in charge of it are despicable trendies in awe at what they do in U.S. grade schools and so eager to emulate the crazy psychologists behind it. In the UK it was good too, until teachers dared to ask for better pay. Thatcher had the cheek to tell these trained, skilled and experienced people, you may get one, if you prove you are worth it. Which resulted in teachers spending half their time, plus home time and hols, filling out records on every individual, on a daily basis, to show they were increasing a child's knowledge. Thatcher was also of the opinion that every one is born equal, so can be educated to the same level, at the same time. Which is nonsense. There's of course also the problem of some parents not putting in any effort to even educate their kids in basic manners, never-mind anything else. (My wife was a teacher). Also, due to a very long term Conservative government, education has been starved of money for years. College and university education used to be free. A student can now leave university with £20,000s debt. Basically, a Conservative government resents putting money in to anything they don't personally use. Currently our school kids are in danger of the school roofs falling on their heads because they were built on the cheap with some stuff that only lasts 20 years. Schools are having to close due to it. Some one made a lot of profit out of building those schools.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Sept 27, 2023 0:11:52 GMT
Potet actually didn't state what you think he did. He mentioned a specific past tense used in writing French but not normally used spoken French. French, like Spanish [among others] has verb tenses you might use in writing, speaking, or only in writing, or only in speaking, or both writing and speaking.
Then the question is, why? Tenses are quite simple, why complicate them.
As I told a judge decades ago [when I acted as a pro bono interpreter, long story], interpreting between English and Spanish is normally not a one-for-one word match from one language to another and back.
I believe England is well acquainted with the concept of 'little education': you have people educated to enter the trades versus people educated to go to college. Potet can correct me if I'm wrong about the point.
There's still the basic level of education, which starts in schools at the age of 5. Few need a Masters B.ed. in English. The UK does not educate people in schools for specific trades. It's all general. It's not Russia. if people wish to go to further education they are welcome to do so, at huge cost. College entry expects a few extra qualifications to be gained, which students stay an extra year in school to get. Public Schools depend on the wealth a parent has. As to trades, often it's an employer who gives training in those. Some people say English only has two tenses, past and present. As for why complicate things, languages evolve [or go extinct except for scholarly uses] and the rules evolve based on customs and usages over time.
Japanese has two verb tenses, past and present, with many ways to conjugate verbs.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 27, 2023 23:46:38 GMT
Some people say English only has two tenses, past and present. Past - has done. Present - doing. Future - will do. What more is needed? As for why complicate things, languages evolve [or go extinct except for scholarly uses] and the rules evolve based on customs and usages over time. Just those three, there's no need to evolve anything else. I remember being taught there are 12 English tenses. www.englishclub.com/grammar/verb-tenses.php That site over-complicates things, for no other reason than to give an excuse to be pedantically labelling things. There's only past, present and future.Japanese has two verb tenses, past and present, with many ways to conjugate verbs. I am sure they also have a future. I am sure they are going to do things, spoken or written. I read Manga. They certainly use past, present and future tenses. I have just read the Chinese novel The Three Body Problem, and watched the dubbed Chinese series of it. They also use three tenses. It's universal.
Anyway, I use mostly present tense. What do you use?
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Sept 28, 2023 20:06:45 GMT
Some people say English only has two tenses, past and present. Past - has done. Present - doing. Future - will do. What more is needed? As for why complicate things, languages evolve [or go extinct except for scholarly uses] and the rules evolve based on customs and usages over time. Just those three, there's no need to evolve anything else. I remember being taught there are 12 English tenses. www.englishclub.com/grammar/verb-tenses.php That site over-complicates things, for no other reason than to give an excuse to be pedantically labelling things. There's only past, present and future.Japanese has two verb tenses, past and present, with many ways to conjugate verbs. I am sure they also have a future. I am sure they are going to do things, spoken or written. I read Manga. They certainly use past, present and future tenses. I have just read the Chinese novel The Three Body Problem, and watched the dubbed Chinese series of it. They also use three tenses. It's universal.
Anyway, I use mostly present tense. What do you use?Well, in dealing with the kids, the tense I use at any given time depends on what they need to hear. When writing a story, four to eight tenses depending on what's going on.
I had not realized you were a linguist.
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Post by potet on Sept 30, 2023 9:08:05 GMT
It is important to make the difference between morphology (the shape of words) and semantics (their meanings). Future is a fundamental tense in Romance languages such as Italian, Spanish, French, while it is not in Germanic languages such as German, Dutch and English. Although the English tense of the type shall/will/'ll do is a derived one, from a semantic point of view it is a future, e.g. He'll work = Il travaillera.
In Tagalog (Philippines), on which I have written extensively, there are no tenses, but only aspects. The unreal aspect is used to express both the unreal and the future, e.g. gágawâ akó = I'd work / I'll work.
One should also consider time frames. You can write a text in the present narrative (he is working), in the past narrative (he was working), in the future narrative (he'll be working) or in the unreal narrative (he'd be working), and in each frame all the tenses have to concord.
In stories written in the past narrative, reported speech is in the present narrative in quotations, but concords with the preterite when in a subordinate clause, hence the ensuing adjustments, e.g. He said: "I'll send you the cheque tomorrow." > He said (that) he would send the cheque the day after."
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