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Post by And still Kevin 2024 on Mar 27, 2020 3:16:13 GMT
And, frankly, one example is hardly a trend.
I am hardly going to sit here and type out every instance of a trend. An example is just that, an example.
(Although what Kevin suggests is hardly anything recent. Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie had Poirot die.)
Two examples there from way back, but isolated really, and there was such an outcry over Holmes that he had to bring him back to life. I have no idea about Poirot. Old age? He had a bad heart did he not?
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Post by ronmiller on Mar 27, 2020 11:22:30 GMT
And, frankly, one example is hardly a trend. I am hardly going to sit here and type out every instance of a trend. An example is just that, an example. (Although what Kevin suggests is hardly anything recent. Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie had Poirot die.) Two examples there from way back, but isolated really, and there was such an outcry over Holmes that he had to bring him back to life. I have no idea about Poirot. Old age? He had a bad heart did he not?Oh...you don't like two "isolated examples" but shrug off a complaint that you used an isolated example? www.huffpost.com/entry/main-characters_b_5575533 |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 27, 2020 11:47:27 GMT
And, frankly, one example is hardly a trend. I am hardly going to sit here and type out every instance of a trend. An example is just that, an example. (Although what Kevin suggests is hardly anything recent. Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie had Poirot die.) Two examples there from way back, but isolated really, and there was such an outcry over Holmes that he had to bring him back to life. I have no idea about Poirot. Old age? He had a bad heart did he not?Oh...you don't like two "isolated examples" but shrug off a complaint that you used an isolated example? www.huffpost.com/entry/main-characters_b_5575533Yeah, I tend to kill off an empathetic likable character here and there for much the same reasons listed in the article. Life has consequences and always has. Look back to epic poems for other examples of the good and bad going down together or apart, killing off the good guys at times keeps things interesting. [Though I'm glad Ulysses made it home at the end of the Odyssey, that book kept me up a few nights back when I was ten.] |
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Post by BlueAndGold on Mar 27, 2020 11:54:32 GMT
Or you can look forward to new epic poems too.  Not all of the good guys make it through SPACE or Castle's Keeper.
For some, redemption comes at a price.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 27, 2020 12:06:03 GMT
Or you can look forward to new epic poems too. Not all of the good guys make it through SPACE or Castle's Keeper.
For some, redemption comes at a price.
Kind of working on writing my own almost-epics now, though not exactly poems.
Redemption [in my experience] always carries a price. Were it not so, it would hold little value.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 16:15:30 GMT
Or you can look forward to new epic poems too. Not all of the good guys make it through SPACE or Castle's Keeper.
For some, redemption comes at a price.
I want your Space book. Second book on my list of splurges. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 16:16:32 GMT
Being roughly 60K words into a novel I started writing on 6 March of 2020, if anyone is interested in the opening lines, chime in.
Being of an older obsolete model, I have to wonder if my work is still functional in the current context.
Perhaps there will be an interest in an older form, not quite an epic tale as it has been writ.
Aye, it serves as a distraction as well as basic practice...
*** Edit 2020/03/22 - 05:46 CDT ***
"People like me quit dreaming when the world around us started dying en-masse. With no way out, we knew we'd leave an empty planet behind. Sure there'd be lots of plants and animals, just no living people like us, anywhere, ever again. All that would be left behind was crumbling ruins, unburied remains, and shattered possibilities." Excerpt from the debriefing of Samantha Erika Fairley [place of origin unknown], June 21st, 2005 – Classification Level: SCI, Eyes Only, Crypto Access Authorization Mandatory
Oh my God. This is my favourite genre. And my favourite first line ever. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 27, 2020 16:24:59 GMT
Being roughly 60K words into a novel I started writing on 6 March of 2020, if anyone is interested in the opening lines, chime in.
Being of an older obsolete model, I have to wonder if my work is still functional in the current context.
Perhaps there will be an interest in an older form, not quite an epic tale as it has been writ.
Aye, it serves as a distraction as well as basic practice...
*** Edit 2020/03/22 - 05:46 CDT ***
"People like me quit dreaming when the world around us started dying en-masse. With no way out, we knew we'd leave an empty planet behind. Sure there'd be lots of plants and animals, just no living people like us, anywhere, ever again. All that would be left behind was crumbling ruins, unburied remains, and shattered possibilities." Excerpt from the debriefing of Samantha Erika Fairley [place of origin unknown], June 21st, 2005 – Classification Level: SCI, Eyes Only, Crypto Access Authorization Mandatory
Oh my God. This is my favourite genre. And my favourite first line ever. And I essentially finished writing that novel day before yesterday, though I can always insert a couple thousand words where the doppelgangers meet fact to face.
Already working on a followup. The opening lines are below.
*******
"I quit believing in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus back when I was a young kid, and now you expect me to believe Sasquatch and flying monkeys are trying to invade the United States? Get real, because if I were on those kinds of drugs you wouldn't be interviewing me for a job."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 0:28:36 GMT
Oh my God. This is my favourite genre. And my favourite first line ever. And I essentially finished writing that novel day before yesterday, though I can always insert a couple thousand words where the doppelgangers meet fact to face.
Already working on a followup. The opening lines are below.
*******
"I quit believing in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus back when I was a young kid, and now you expect me to believe Sasquatch and flying monkeys are trying to invade the United States? Get real, because if I were on those kinds of drugs you wouldn't be interviewing me for a job."
Wow. That's madness good.
I have not watched a single show, which has resulted in my actually being able to read a print book again. If I somehow manage to stay offline completely perhaps I'll be able to write again.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 28, 2020 0:44:04 GMT
And I essentially finished writing that novel day before yesterday, though I can always insert a couple thousand words where the doppelgangers meet fact to face.
Already working on a followup. The opening lines are below.
*******
"I quit believing in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus back when I was a young kid, and now you expect me to believe Sasquatch and flying monkeys are trying to invade the United States? Get real, because if I were on those kinds of drugs you wouldn't be interviewing me for a job."
Wow. That's madness good.
I have not watched a single show, which has resulted in my actually being able to read a print book again. If I somehow manage to stay offline completely perhaps I'll be able to write again.
Miss Maggie,
I watch streaming shows as the spouse dictates. Reading a print book, not so easy with Their Graces. Despite jumping up and sitting down, doing laundry, doing dishes, cooking, and all the other plethora of tacks to be completed, it all boils down to listening to the characters with tales to tell and putting their stories into a durable media.
Milady does not begrudge the time it takes to render tales, she urges me to do as I must while still keeping at least a toe in this reality. Truth be told, when your inner voice is insistent, there will be no stopping it. Like the oceans tides may ebb and flow, but when a storm is brewing there is no stopping it. So it is with writing.
Wait until your inner voice is ready and demanding to be heard, the words will flow...
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Post by And still Kevin 2024 on Mar 28, 2020 3:08:17 GMT
Oh...you don't like two "isolated examples" but shrug off a complaint that you used an isolated example?
I was being sarcastic. It's an English habit. Perhaps I did not explain myself well? Star Trek created a well known concept. Anyone wearing a red top rarely reached the end of an episode, but they never bothered with building a character around them, they were in it to be killed. While others in stories have Plot Armour. Meaning that no matter what happens to them they never get fatally hurt, if hurt at all. Machine guns never hit them even from 40 feet away, or they carry on regardless riddled with bullets. It's unusual for a main character to be killed off. (Unless the writer gets bored of them after many stories, or cannot think where else to take them, ditto. Some simply die of old age.) At least not in the 1000s of books I have read, apart from that one example I offered. He was not even bad, very good in fact, so it was a shock to everyone his head was lopped off, they expected him to be in it to the end (I had at least read the books, so knew what was going to happen). It set the precept for the entire series, but did cause other characters to do what they did, it is a very long story with thankfully a lot of characters. But it can ruin a stand-alone story if you follow the main character through 3/4 of a story, then they get killed.
Many of the examples given in the article are not main characters, they are mostly incidental. M, for example, is not on screen much in most of them, that she gets killed off in one of the latest one, the one she is seen in the most, proves my point though. I am talking about main characters, not ones only introduced to kill off.
Anyway. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_off all relatively recent >> www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/tv-shows-that-killed-the-main-character.html/
All the same, I still find it impossible to kill off anyone I have spent a long time creating, it does need a sadistic streak, and I don't have one.. But I don't scriptwrite for a flagging TV series.
BTW. when one example is given, it's always isolated. 
PS: I have no idea how the credentials of the writer of that article make him a voice on it within fiction. Speaker and Dean of Behavioral and Social Sciences? Seems he does not even write fiction. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 28, 2020 11:01:00 GMT
Mr Lomas,
It's becoming clearer that you are, a very kind gentle soul.
I'm not sadistic, at least in real life -- if I have to kill a critter I do so as quickly and humanely as possible.
With my writing, I'm still not sadistic regardless of whether I kill off one character with pancreatic cancer, millions with fusion bombs, or billions with a virus from hell.
If I do write of a character's torment, it's not because I or most readers will find it enjoyable. Rather it's to allow the reader to understand that actions do have consequences even in fiction, kind of like an adherent of "spare the rod spoil the child" [enjoying taking punishment to the limit to prove his point] discovering his child grew up to be a serial killer, by being a victim.
Last time I checked being sadistic meant deriving pleasure from the infliction of pain, humiliation, and / or suffering upon others. Unfortunately I can understand the pain, humiliation, and suffering a bit too well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 13:54:07 GMT
if I have to kill a critter I do so as quickly and humanely as possible.
Sphinx-Cameron sometimes the killing of a creature happens, but it's great that you you do it in a humane way. I used to live in France and often visited the open air market. There would be a few people selling live chickens. I used to think that the buyers of a live chicken were braver than those that just bought the carefully wrapped dead version in the supermarket. (mind you I realise that it is the only option for lots of folk) I just hoped that like you the live chicken buyers killed their bird humanely.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Mar 28, 2020 14:38:07 GMT
if I have to kill a critter I do so as quickly and humanely as possible.Sphinx-Cameron sometimes the killing of a creature happens, but it's great that you you do it in a humane way. I used to live in France and often visited the open air market. There would be a few people selling live chickens. I used to think that the buyers of a live chicken were braver than those that just bought the carefully wrapped dead version in the supermarket. (mind you I realise that it is the only option for lots of folk) I just hoped that like you the live chicken buyers killed their bird humanely. Lady Elizabeth,
I can't say those who go for the live chickens are braver, it's likely a case of them being a bit more accustomed to seeing what happens.
Having done the farm thing as a kid I'm well aware of how to make it quick for an animal, though there will always be a certain amount of unpleasantness involved. To this day I refuse to own chickens.
No matter what we consume to survive, we do so at the expense of another species. Those who derive pleasure from needless suffering, should perhaps consider we aren't far removed from a similar context. Here in Texas there are individuals from time to time who learn the hard way wild hogs are not only intelligent and dangerous, they consider us a meal of opportunity.
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Post by And still Kevin 2024 on Mar 30, 2020 14:10:01 GMT
I have often wondered how hunters would react if the animals shot back.
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