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Post by benziger on May 8, 2020 13:03:54 GMT
Just found this at facebook.com:
Greg Grégory Why Lulu erase all previous comments?? 4
Dave L Lewis Some people have put useful comments on here which have been deleted. I asked them to stop erasing these comments, but they just erased my request. I think this method creates deeper mistrust in their company so I wish they would rethink their strategy, just until they have sorted out their issues. Anyhow, I shall stop posting on here as they will only probably delete my comments anyway. Hopefully they will sort themselves out sooner rather than later, but it’s really quite a sad situation. Hopefully many others are having less issues than me due to this update. 3
Loren Grace "Deeper mistrust"
Yes! Exactly! This is the biggest problem with this entire fiasco (aside from the obvious issues with the website, of course, which I would normally be patient with): they are trying to hide and cover up.
Not a good look. 2
Andrew Flindall We might not like them, but most of the answers to most of the issues have been provided. The unknowns are how long it's all going to take and what level of exceptions they're dealing with; and they may not know these either.
Our poor wounded egos might benefit from increased damage limitation, but if that's at the cost actual damage remediation then it's arguably counter-productive. It's a tricky balance.
Dane Barrett Its because they don't want a history of these events. When, sorry IF, they ever get these issues sorted out, they want new people to come to this Facebook page and think everything has always been rosy. Its a common tactic among many businesses.
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Post by Loren on May 8, 2020 18:48:03 GMT
Just found this at facebook.com:
Dave L Lewis Some people have put useful comments on here which have been deleted. I asked them to stop erasing these comments, but they just erased my request. I think this method creates deeper mistrust in their company so I wish they would rethink their strategy, just until they have sorted out their issues. I don't believe we are the only ones who have mentioned the level of mistrust their PR approach is creating and how badly it reflects upon them, as a company. The other comments simply got deleted (or hidden) along with the original posts. Lulu's "official response" to my original inquiry on their first April 27th update as to why the admin/s on the FB page were deleting and/or hiding everyone's comments was as follows: "The comment threads have made it extremely difficult to bring attention to the actual updates being shared - we want to make sure our users are seeing the information they need." Not a valid argument, in my opinion. They then un-hid previously hidden comments on that first April 27th thread (but deleting their response to me, of course...), and they have since made it their apparent policy to simply delete or "unpublish" their subsequent update posts, including that first April 27th update post. I'm surprised they haven't yet deleted/hidden their second April 27th update that had Kathy Hensgen offering an apology, because many of the comments there were also highlighting what a disaster this upgrade has been thusfar. So, yes, for me, the way they have handled this from a PR standpoint creates a level of mistrust in them as a company, and I am looking elsewhere for a POD service.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 8, 2020 21:08:26 GMT
Just found this at facebook.com:
Dave L Lewis Some people have put useful comments on here which have been deleted. I asked them to stop erasing these comments, but they just erased my request. I think this method creates deeper mistrust in their company so I wish they would rethink their strategy, just until they have sorted out their issues. I don't believe we are the only ones who have mentioned the level of mistrust their PR approach is creating and how badly it reflects upon them, as a company. The other comments simply got deleted (or hidden) along with the original posts. Lulu's "official response" to my original inquiry on their first April 27th update as to why the admin/s on the FB page were deleting and/or hiding everyone's comments was as follows: "The comment threads have made it extremely difficult to bring attention to the actual updates being shared - we want to make sure our users are seeing the information they need." Not a valid argument, in my opinion. They then un-hid previously hidden comments on that first April 27th thread (but deleting their response to me, of course...), and they have since made it their apparent policy to simply delete or "unpublish" their subsequent update posts, including that first April 27th update post. I'm surprised they haven't yet deleted/hidden their second April 27th update that had Kathy Hensgen offering an apology, because many of the comments there were also highlighting what a disaster this upgrade has been thus far. So, yes, for me, the way they have handled this from a PR standpoint creates a level of mistrust in them as a company, and I am looking elsewhere for a POD service. Another thing that fuels mistrust, everyone does not use FacePain. Meaning when the official updates are only posted on FacePain without being relayed via email it shows a certain level of contempt for anyone who "isn't one one of the cool kids".
Simply put Kathy Hensgen offering an apology only on FacePain while ignoring people who from a professional perspective expect at least an email notification, well it's extremely unprofessional to say the least. From a PR perspective it's indicative of a failure of leadership.
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Post by benziger on May 8, 2020 21:56:25 GMT
Another thing that fuels mistrust, everyone does not use FacePain. Meaning when the official updates are only posted on FacePain without being relayed via email it shows a certain level of contempt for anyone who "isn't one one of the cool kids". You won't find me there either, but at the moment I'm using tortuous paths to tap information there. In two sentences: There will be an official update every day. Then follow dozens of comments with cries for help that the supposedly patched one doesn't work in all cases and after 24 hours the update with all comments is silently replaced. The users are raging. A difficult situation.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 8, 2020 22:48:05 GMT
Another thing that fuels mistrust, everyone does not use FacePain. Meaning when the official updates are only posted on FacePain without being relayed via email it shows a certain level of contempt for anyone who "isn't one one of the cool kids". You won't find me there either, but at the moment I'm using tortuous paths to tap information there. In two sentences: There will be an official update every day. Then follow dozens of comments with cries for help that the supposedly patched one doesn't work in all cases and after 24 hours the update with all comments is silently replaced. The users are raging. A difficult situation. From a former IT professional's perspective, this is a badly mismanaged upgrade wherein the people [or person] driving it are trying to shift blame rather than accept responsibility. The reality is everything according to prior statements was supposed to be done by close of business in the U.S., today, which it isn't. Close of business on the U.S. East Coast was an hour and a half ago.
I appreciate the effort you're making, Herr Benziger, but you're not the responsible party. That person, as in the one who is responsible for the success or failure of the upgrade, would be the Chief Operating Officer.
Back when I was in the U.S. corporate world if I had been the person behind this big a FUBAR screw-the-pooch, I would have been fired with nothing but a get lost and drop dead for compensation and time served.
My projects are more screwed up now than they were at the beginning of the week. If I were the owner of Lulu Press, Inc., you can bet the people behind this slow-motion train wreck of an upgrade would have already been terminated from the positions and roles they are obviously incapable of fulfilling.
The difficult situation in question was self-inflicted.
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Post by benziger on May 9, 2020 11:34:41 GMT
The difficult situation in question was self-inflicted. The difficult situation in question is self-inflicted. I agree. Since I am by nature rather balancing and certain other people are rather quick-tempered or inclined to short-circuit actions, I(t)e actually only try to point out that daily bombing the support does not speed things up - on the contrary. That switching to another provider is just as costly (or even more costly) than being patient for the last few days. And: The more people meet here in the forum, which is independent of Lulu and where Lulu can't delete comments, the sooner we, as Lulu's partners*, can demand targeted changes in a next step; demands that then get strong support (e.g. 50 instead of 3). But we are still a long way from 50. *I see authors/publishers as business partners; customers, they are the book buyers.
What happens to Lulu internally, we don't know. Maybe there are some people who need to take the rap for what they did before they have to step down.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 9, 2020 15:27:26 GMT
The difficult situation in question was self-inflicted. The difficult situation in question is self-inflicted. I agree. Since I am by nature rather balancing and certain other people are rather quick-tempered or inclined to short-circuit actions, I(t)e actually only try to point out that daily bombing the support does not speed things up - on the contrary. That switching to another provider is just as costly (or even more costly) than being patient for the last few days. And: The more people meet here in the forum, which is independent of Lulu and where Lulu can't delete comments, the sooner we, as Lulu's partners*, can demand targeted changes in a next step; demands that then get strong support (e.g. 50 instead of 3). But we are still a long way from 50. *I see authors/publishers as business partners; customers, they are the book buyers. What happens to Lulu internally, we don't know. Maybe there are some people who need to take the rap for what they did before they have to step down.
I agree, the more times the same people enter a new support ticket for issues they've already reported the longer it takes for support personnel to get around to their issues and everyone else's.
You're also correct in pointing out that it's the collective author / publishers utilizing Lulu Press as a service provider who are in essence business partners of Lulu Press. Without all the partners located in different countries, the company wouldn't have nearly the income stream it does.
Therein lies part of the problem; the hubris of a corporate entity seeing the concerns of those who make up a core component of its business model and deem those concerns as irrelevant to its long-term survival.
Deleting comments on social media that point out issues is a sign of a management strategy disconnected from the reality the various business partners [in this case the author / publishers] are facing. Only posting updates to social media is another sign of the disconnect from reality, just as failing to notify those of potential upcoming changes that could impact them [via email] is another sign of that disconnect.
At this stage patience is, as you noted, advisable. A better next step would be for someone higher up in the food chain at Lulu Press than Paul to register here and at least attempt to open an honest dialogue. Bad PR can kill a company faster than a bad product can, meaning it pays to be poractive [rather than reactive] when it comes to a situation like this.
Then again I'm just a simple bottle washer and scullery maid / cook.
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Post by Dan Doe on May 9, 2020 15:57:29 GMT
They are not only hiding comments, but they also block people from writing on Facebook. I got blocked because I doubt that we will get our money and wrote so. Yesterday it was promised that the revenues would be in our account until the end of the day. In yesterday's update, they said that we will get money though it is not visible in our account. They earn money with creators and tread them like ...
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Post by benziger on May 9, 2020 16:06:42 GMT
At this stage patience is, as you noted, advisable. A better next step would be for someone higher up in the food chain at Lulu Press than Paul to register here and at least attempt to open an honest dialogue. Bad PR can kill a company faster than a bad product can, meaning it pays to be poractive [rather than reactive] when it comes to a situation like this. You mean, for example Kathy Hensgen (@linkedin)? Unfortunately I am not a premium member there to address them. Probably have to wait until there is another free month. Here too: wait. No, no one wants Lulu to destroy herself, even if some people are pretty upset right now.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 9, 2020 16:32:52 GMT
At this stage patience is, as you noted, advisable. A better next step would be for someone higher up in the food chain at Lulu Press than Paul to register here and at least attempt to open an honest dialogue. Bad PR can kill a company faster than a bad product can, meaning it pays to be poractive [rather than reactive] when it comes to a situation like this. You mean, for example Kathy Hensgen (@linkedin)? Unfortunately I am not a premium member there to address them. Probably have to wait until there is another free month. Here too: wait. No, no one wants Lulu to destroy herself, even if some people are pretty upset right now.
Since I haven't logged into linkedin in about a decade and have no desire to sign up for it again, I can't peek at her profile. To be honest I doubt she'd make the effort to open a dialogue unless she was told she'd be looking for work if she didn't. I doubt she realizes what the long-term effect of this "upgrade" blowing up will have, for now.
I can understand people being upset, as I don't particularly care for the thought that the time I spent setting up books at LuLu Press was wasted effort.
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Post by Loren on May 9, 2020 17:25:01 GMT
The difficult situation in question was self-inflicted. The difficult situation in question is self-inflicted. I agree. Since I am by nature rather balancing and certain other people are rather quick-tempered or inclined to short-circuit actions, I(t)e actually only try to point out that daily bombing the support does not speed things up - on the contrary. That switching to another provider is just as costly (or even more costly) than being patient for the last few days. And: The more people meet here in the forum, which is independent of Lulu and where Lulu can't delete comments, the sooner we, as Lulu's partners*, can demand targeted changes in a next step; demands that then get strong support (e.g. 50 instead of 3). But we are still a long way from 50. *I see authors/publishers as business partners; customers, they are the book buyers.
What happens to Lulu internally, we don't know. Maybe there are some people who need to take the rap for what they did before they have to step down.
You said: "I(t)e actually only try to point out that daily bombing the support does not speed things up - on the contrary." My response: If you have been following the notifications (a.k.a., "updates") Lulu has been giving us on Facebook/FacePain (or, "FartBook," as my GF and I sometimes call it... lol ), they have continually advised us to "send in support tickets." It was only May 5 (!!!) that we were advised of the following: "Our Customer Support is working as fast as they can to resolve all support cases. We highly suggest that you ONLY SUBMIT ONE support case. Multiple tickets from the same user can slow our response to your original inquiry." (I have many screenshots of the posts and comments for several of the missing/deleted/hidden update posts, so this is a direct quote.) Then, when you add in the actual "responses" we are given to our "support" cases, they are generic. They don't actually solve anything. At least, that was how my support case was handled; and I have seen many people comment on the threads that it is the same for them, too. So what are we to do...? Twiddle our thumbs...? Or submit another support ticket, since the first one wasn't resolved at all...? (And, by the way, I have not submitted any other support ticket other than the first. I saw the writing on the wall, so to speak, and decided it was probably useless, at this point, to continue to send in support tickets. So I decided to "twiddle my thumbs" and wait to see how it comes out in the wash; although now, because of the very poor way Lulu has managed this affair, I have decided to move on.) Yes, I'm all about patience. I am being patient. I have been, and I will continue to be. After all, there is nothing to do but wait, since I can't do anything about it anyway. Patience isn't the issue. This is beyond patience. This is about incompetence and getting no real response or answers from anyone for at least two weeks now, and no trustworthy timeline as to when we may get real answers or responses. Which brings me to the next point... You said: "That switching to another provider is just as costly (or even more costly) than being patient for the last few days." My response: First, I respectfully suggest that perhaps each author be allowed to decide for themselves what the cost is for them. Perhaps for you, it costs more to switch. But this isn't the case for everyone. Second, suggesting that the only solution is for people to "be patient," as you put it, is subtly indicating that perhaps those who do not want to wait for Lulu to get their mess sorted out are the sorts of people who aren't patient. That simply isn't true. This isn't a case between the "hot-heads" and the "quick-tempered" who want to migrate elsewhere because they are too impatient to wait an indeterminate amount of time for Lulu to fix their website, and the "patient" and "balanced" types who are calmly and serenely waiting for the mess to get sorted out. So I'd prefer that sort of divisive language ("balanced" versus "imbalanced" and "patient" versus "quick-tempered") be kept out of the conversation, as it has a tendency to alienate. But these are just my thoughts on the matter.
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Post by benziger on May 9, 2020 18:55:11 GMT
A written discussion is usually somewhat shortened. I think our points of view are relatively close (even if they don't have to be).
If you have one or two books, you can easily change. Maybe I would do it too. With twenty or a hundred books, on the other hand, the time required is not negligible. Or someone who has linked to his books on x places. Before someone decides to wait and hope or change, he has to think about such things as time, costs, formates, reprint or new edition, adjusting previous links, etc.
When I wrote about the quick-tempered, I thought more of those who wrote e.g. about a lawsuit. At the moment this is probably of no use. And also in the long run this will not strengthen Lulu.
If all tickets on a topic are closed, when IT says that this is generally solved (with the advice to reopen it if necessary in case), this also shows a certain helplessness or much more overburding of the respective employees.
If you like to share some screenshots, you can use the "Add Attachement" function and ad up to 3 pictures (max 1MB per pic) in a post / for more pictures, more than one post...
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 9, 2020 20:32:33 GMT
Herr Benziger, With discussions many people should be aware of semantic differences in how language is used not just between varying cultures and birth-languages but also generational differences. When I counsel people to be patient they often think I'm being condescending, because they think I'm telling them to calm down. The reality is had I not been patient and dealt with things by patiently bearing a lot of pain I would have lost an eye as well as the use of at least two fingers.
At any rate, time to change a two-year-old's diaper, may the stench be with me.
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Post by Loren on May 10, 2020 3:03:32 GMT
A written discussion is usually somewhat shortened. I think our points of view are relatively close (even if they don't have to be).
If you have one or two books, you can easily change. Maybe I would do it too. With twenty or a hundred books, on the other hand, the time required is not negligible. Or someone who has linked to his books on x places. Before someone decides to wait and hope or change, he has to think about such things as time, costs, formates, reprint or new edition, adjusting previous links, etc.
When I wrote about the quick-tempered, I thought more of those who wrote e.g. about a lawsuit. At the moment this is probably of no use. And also in the long run this will not strengthen Lulu.
If all tickets on a topic are closed, when IT says that this is generally solved (with the advice to reopen it if necessary in case), this also shows a certain helplessness or much more overburding of the respective employees.
If you like to share some screenshots, you can use the "Add Attachement" function and ad up to 3 pictures (max 1MB per pic) in a post / for more pictures, more than one post...
I do appreciate the honest dialogue, benziger, so thank you. You said: "A written discussion is usually somewhat shortened. I think our points of view are relatively close (even if they don't have to be)." My response: Agreed. You said: "If you have one or two books, you can easily change. Maybe I would do it too. With twenty or a hundred books, on the other hand, the time required is not negligible. Or someone who has linked to his books on x places. Before someone decides to wait and hope or change, he has to think about such things as time, costs, formates, reprint or new edition, adjusting previous links, etc." My response: Agreed. However, this isn't the case for all. Many, perhaps (how would I know, one way or the other?). But not all. So I do not think it wise or kind to lump all into two groups (or however many groups), i.e., those who are "balanced" (in other words, those who choose to stick around and wait for Lulu to figure things out) and those who are not (in other words, those who are "quick-tempered"). But these are just my thoughts. You said: "When I wrote about the quick-tempered, I thought more of those who wrote e.g. about a lawsuit. At the moment this is probably of no use. And also in the long run this will not strengthen Lulu." My response: Agreed. However, you did not indicate what type of individual you were thinking of. And my initial response still stands: who are we to decide what is best for others? Perhaps suing is the best option for some, who may have a reason to sue. Who am I (or you... or anyone else) to suggest otherwise...? Or to suggest to such individuals who do choose to sue are "quick-tempered". You said: "If you like to share some screenshots, you can use the "Add Attachement" function and ad up to 3 pictures (max 1MB per pic) in a post / for more pictures, more than one post..." My response: Thank you. I tried to add a screenshot to prove what I was saying, but I can't figure it out. I'm asked to insert an "image URL," so I can't figure it out. No biggie. If anyone wants screenshots (unlikely), you can find me on Facebook page and ask... or Google my name (LorenGrace) and you can find me there. (I'm not the stripper... "centerfold"... by the same name, btw. J/S LOL!)
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Post by reinholdbehringer on May 10, 2020 10:43:47 GMT
The difficult situation in question was self-inflicted. ... The more people meet here in the forum, which is independent of Lulu and where Lulu can't delete comments, the sooner we, as Lulu's partners*, can demand targeted changes in a next step; demands that then get strong support (e.g. 50 instead of 3). But we are still a long way from 50.
I was curious and have actually counted the individuals with negative feedback, just on Facebook from the comments to the 27 April and 8 May update. There are (at least) 115 individual authors with negative feedback. I keep posting comments on FB, even if it is probably futile. Great that this forum here exists. Yes, if we can get all the authors who have experienced problems, to come together, this may have a more powerful impact. I did create on FB a new page, where authors could post without the daily delete-purge... : www.facebook.com/Alternatives-to-Lulu-101166808266640/But I did not want to see this FB page as a "competing" site to this forum. When I visited this forum about 2 weeks ago, there was not much in terms of discussion of this new website-update fiasco. Therefore, I kept to FB. In the meantime, this forum here as much more postings, and it is probably a better and more powerful way to collect the authors' voices here than on FB. Twitter also has a few comments on the Lulu account: twitter.com/LuludotcomAnd I did occasionally post there.
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