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Post by BlueAndGold on May 13, 2020 1:26:02 GMT
A question for the Resident "Brickhouse Gang":
Suppose someone published a number of books on worldwide distribution using Lulu-provided ISBN's.
And suppose Lulu jacked up their system so badly that it was unusable to the someone.
Is there any reason the someone could not turn to a Lulu competitor with their book and cover files and carry on their book printing and distribution business with the competitor?
(An ISBN is not really "owned" by anyone but the copyright holder of the book, right? Or is there some fine print somewhere that escapes me?)
Would someone have to provide new ISBN's for their book projects if they were to transfer their book printing business to a Lulu competitor?
I was just wondering what someone would do if they were faced with imminent Lulu system failure. Someone might want to be prepared...
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 10:14:45 GMT
A question for the Resident "Brickhouse Gang": Suppose someone published a number of books on worldwide distribution using Lulu-provided ISBN's. And suppose Lulu jacked up their system so badly that it was unusable to the someone. Is there any reason the someone could not turn to a Lulu competitor with their book and cover files and carry on their book printing and distribution business with the competitor? (An ISBN is not really "owned" by anyone but the copyright holder of the book, right? Or is there some fine print somewhere that escapes me?) Would someone have to provide new ISBN's for their book projects if they were to transfer their book printing business to a Lulu competitor? I was just wondering what someone would do if they were faced with imminent Lulu system failure. Someone might want to be prepared... There's a process where it could be done at Ingram Spark. A friend of mine looked it up. However, when she tried it again recently she faield.
When one of the ebook distributors failed two years ago, PublishDrive and Streetlib set up a system where all books could be transferred from one place to the other easily.
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Post by ronmiller on May 13, 2020 14:07:00 GMT
A question for the Resident "Brickhouse Gang": Suppose someone published a number of books on worldwide distribution using Lulu-provided ISBN's. And suppose Lulu jacked up their system so badly that it was unusable to the someone. Is there any reason the someone could not turn to a Lulu competitor with their book and cover files and carry on their book printing and distribution business with the competitor? (An ISBN is not really "owned" by anyone but the copyright holder of the book, right? Or is there some fine print somewhere that escapes me?) Would someone have to provide new ISBN's for their book projects if they were to transfer their book printing business to a Lulu competitor? I was just wondering what someone would do if they were faced with imminent Lulu system failure. Someone might want to be prepared... An ISBN identifies a book and that includes the publisher. So an ISBN that was obtained from Lulu identifies Lulu as the publisher. It cannot be transferred to a different publisher. Someone ordering the book based on the ISBN would be directed to Lulu. A different publisher for the book would have to have a different ISBN. The ISBN, by the way, has absolutely nothing at all to do with copyright. It does nothing more than identify a particular book. The number includes this information: a group or country identifier which identifies a national or geographic grouping of publishers; a publisher identifier which identifies a particular publisher within a group and a title identifier which identifies a particular title or edition of a title. For instance, the number might indicate: USA/PLASMOID PRESS/HERCULES MEETS THE SQUID QUEEN OF ATLANTIS. So the only way in which a copyright holder can "own" the ISBN to their book is if they bought the number themselves and identified themselves as the publisher. If someone else were to publish the book, it would be assigned a new number. This does not mean that one book cannot have multiple ISBNs...it would just have to have one for each different publisher. An author might license their book to half a dozen different publishers simultaneously. Each would have a unique ISBN all the while the copyright is retained by the author.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 14:14:27 GMT
So Ron from what you are saying, if an ISBN was given to us by Lulu and they are officially the publisher of our books as shown on sites like Amazon, our books would disappear if Lulu goes down
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Post by ronmiller on May 13, 2020 14:47:39 GMT
So Ron from what you are saying, if an ISBN was given to us by Lulu and they are officially the publisher of our books as shown on sites like Amazon, our books would disappear if Lulu goes down I don't know about that for sure...but anyone attempting to order one would probably get the order bounced.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 13, 2020 14:50:53 GMT
So Ron from what you are saying, if an ISBN was given to us by Lulu and they are officially the publisher of our books as shown on sites like Amazon, our books would disappear if Lulu goes down ISBNs handed out by Lulu Press belong to Lulu Press, meaning if Lulu Press went out of business those ISBNs would be defunct unless owned by whichever company bought out Lulu Press, if any.
Short answer, if Lulu Press went down without being bought up by another company then titles that went to Amazon through Lulu alone would likely disappear.
*** Edit ***
In disappearing, something I just read indicates the title would become unavailable for order, but someone who previously had ordered might be able to download it again.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 13, 2020 15:01:49 GMT
A question for the Resident "Brickhouse Gang": Suppose someone published a number of books on worldwide distribution using Lulu-provided ISBN's. And suppose Lulu jacked up their system so badly that it was unusable to the someone. Is there any reason the someone could not turn to a Lulu competitor with their book and cover files and carry on their book printing and distribution business with the competitor? (An ISBN is not really "owned" by anyone but the copyright holder of the book, right? Or is there some fine print somewhere that escapes me?) Would someone have to provide new ISBN's for their book projects if they were to transfer their book printing business to a Lulu competitor? I was just wondering what someone would do if they were faced with imminent Lulu system failure. Someone might want to be prepared... An ISBN identifies a book and that includes the publisher. So an ISBN that was obtained from Lulu identifies Lulu as the publisher. It cannot be transferred to a different publisher. Someone ordering the book based on the ISBN would be directed to Lulu. A different publisher for the book would have to have a different ISBN. The ISBN, by the way, has absolutely nothing at all to do with copyright. It does nothing more than identify a particular book. The number includes this information: a group or country identifier which identifies a national or geographic grouping of publishers; a publisher identifier which identifies a particular publisher within a group and a title identifier which identifies a particular title or edition of a title. For instance, the number might indicate: USA/PLASMOID PRESS/HERCULES MEETS THE SQUID QUEEN OF ATLANTIS. So the only way in which a copyright holder can "own" the ISBN to their book is if they bought the number themselves and identified themselves as the publisher. If someone else were to publish the book, it would be assigned a new number. This does not mean that one book cannot have multiple ISBNs...it would just have to have one for each different publisher. An author might license their book to half a dozen different publishers simultaneously. Each would have a unique ISBN all the while the copyright is retained by the author. The ISBN for "USA/PLASMOID PRESS/HERCULES MEETS THE SQUID QUEEN OF ATLANTIS" would also indicate if it's an ebook, or format such as pocket book, trade paperback, trade hardcover, or some other format.
*** Edit ***
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 18:12:13 GMT
Thanks Sphinx-Cameron and Ron. All my books have Lulu ISBNs. Sigh!!
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Post by benziger on May 13, 2020 18:57:46 GMT
In principle, everything has already been said. An example for better understanding:
978 is group identifier (978, 979 for books)
3 is the language code (0 or 1 for English-speaking countries; 2 for French-sp. c.s; 3 for German-sp. c.; 4 for Japan; 5 for Russian-sp. c., etc.) 16 is the publisher
148410 is the book number 0 is the check digit
If the book is now published by another publisher (Lulu -> competitor), it will be given a new publisher number and a new book number (and accordingly a different check digit).
If I have my own ISBN and I now change e.g. from Lulu to a competitor, not the publisher (me) but only the printer (Lulu -> competitor) changes. In that case, the ISBN remains the same.
Note: Lulu-ISBN (or the competitor's, accordingly) = Lulu is editor = their ISBN remains their ISBN; my ISBN remains my ISBN, as I am the editor.
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Post by markcbrown on May 13, 2020 21:40:32 GMT
Can't you just retire the book then make a few changes and republish it under a new isbn. After all its your book 100%
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Post by adrianallan on May 13, 2020 21:56:06 GMT
It's sad that people are seriously considering doing this - and that some people think this might be the end of Lulu.
I really don't know, but this mess can't drag on for much longer.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 13, 2020 23:24:05 GMT
Can't you just retire the book then make a few changes and republish it under a new isbn. After all its your book 100% In order to qualify as a different edition, a book has to have {I forget what the Libray of Congress stipulated] 20% to 25% difference from the previous edition.
It takes more than a few changes to qualify as a new edition.
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Post by BlueAndGold on May 14, 2020 1:15:43 GMT
Thank you, Ron and Benziger for the very clear information and the link. I now know what must be done if Someone decides to reset their business perspective. We live and learn.
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Post by ronmiller on May 14, 2020 15:42:30 GMT
In principle, everything has already been said. An example for better understanding:
978 is group identifier (978, 979 for books)
3 is the language code (0 or 1 for English-speaking countries; 2 for French-sp. c.s; 3 for German-sp. c.; 4 for Japan; 5 for Russian-sp. c., etc.) 16 is the publisher
148410 is the book number 0 is the check digit
If the book is now published by another publisher (Lulu -> competitor), it will be given a new publisher number and a new book number (and accordingly a different check digit).
If I have my own ISBN and I now change e.g. from Lulu to a competitor, not the publisher (me) but only the printer (Lulu -> competitor) changes. In that case, the ISBN remains the same.
Note: Lulu-ISBN (or the competitor's, accordingly) = Lulu is editor = their ISBN remains their ISBN; my ISBN remains my ISBN, as I am the editor.
Excellent explanation! (but you might want to substitute "publisher" for "editor").
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 14, 2020 17:54:42 GMT
Finally being able to check certain things, and not happy with the new FUBAR system. In part because Lulu Press has done away with the entry for Publisher in the details.
I'll be glad when I can figure out how to retire or delete projects, if we're allowed to do that.
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