Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 5:49:52 GMT
When I read about the death of George Floyd I was horrified that a policeman killed him by kneeling on his neck. The story was all over the media in the UK. People were holding marches, rallies and violent actions against the death of George. No where was there any mention of the fact that George was a criminal. I was told this by a friend. So I went to google and found out that George had a long criminal record and had even threatened a pregnant woman with a gun while he stole from her. I had thought he was an innocent man. Mind you what the policeman did was wrong, but surely it was equally wrong to suppress the fact of George's criminal past. When I spoke with someone on the rally he told me he had no idea George was a criminal. He said he would't have gone on the rally if he'd known that.
I am against racism but people must know the whole truth about a situation.
We have been discussing suppression of books.We all agree once published they shouldn't be banned. In the same way, why suppress the fact that George was a criminal? The media, like publishers must act responsibly.
|
|
|
Post by adrianallan on Jun 11, 2020 6:06:38 GMT
It's pretty much the tip of the iceberg, really.
Did you know that the victim also starred in some porn films and also worked in the same nightclub as the cop who killed him?
And on a different topic, did you know that three, not two, towers fell at free-fall speed on 911 2001?
If you want my opinion, the mainstream press is simply the propaganda wing of the government - or in some cases, the shadow government.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 7:17:18 GMT
To find out a bit more adrianallan I searched google and discovered only a few years ago he was a hardcore porn star. I also looked up the nightclub---- "George Floyd and former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin worked security together at the same nightclub years before their deadly encounter and had a history of not getting along, a former co-worker told CBS Evening News. They bumped heads ... It has a lot to do with Derek being extremely aggressive within the club with some of the patrons, which was an issue,” former co-worker David Pinney told CBS Evening News." I wish the media would tell the whole stoty. However according to Pinney, Chauvin was aggressive. Maybe he had a grudge against Floyd. However we are talking about one policeman who behaved badly and who must pay the consequences of his actions. I am in favour of peaceful demonstations against good causes such as racism, but am appalled at the looting and vilence that often accompanies it. Also I read about a retired police officer who was killed during the riots " (CNN)A retired police captain fatally shot during looting in St. Louis"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 11:02:54 GMT
When I read about the death of George Floyd I was horrified that a policeman killed him by kneeling on his neck. The story was all over the media in the UK. People were holding marches, rallies and violent actions against the death of George. No where was there any mention of the fact that George was a criminal. I was told this by a friend. So I went to google and found out that George had a long criminal record and had even threatened a pregnant woman with a gun while he stole from her. I had thought he was an innocent man. Mind you what the policeman did was wrong, but surely it was equally wrong to suppress the fact of George's criminal past. When I spoke with someone on the rally he told me he had no idea George was a criminal. He said he would't have gone on the rally if he'd known that. I am against racism but people must know the whole truth about a situation. We have been discussing suppression of books.We all agree once published they shouldn't be banned. In the same way, why suppress the fact that George was a criminal? The media, like publishers must act responsibly. That's what they do to rape victims. They list all their flaws and history and tear their character to shreds so it that it doesn't matter that they were raped. That is the implication. The strategy.
That is what they are doing to George Floyd now so that the shock of what the world saw seems less disgusting. After all, the message is, he was just a thug. Who cares if a cop kneeled on his neck and killed him while he begged for his life. His life had no value.
|
|
|
Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jun 11, 2020 12:45:13 GMT
When it comes to the unrest caused by the death of George Floyd, take a step back for a moment, think about the following hypothetical, then decide if outrage is in order. Jane Doe is a 30-year-old divorced mother of three. Per the initial police report, during an altercation with police who were serving a warrant she was shot 15 times by police who claimed self-defense because she was "armed and dangerous". Later statements by eye witnesses as well as details of the warrant dispute the official account by the officers on the scene. Fun fact, in the U.S. most people are going to pay attention to the police report first, then look for reasons why the killing was justified. It is assumed Jane Doe was black, and for a few days most people feel safe since a threat to society has been eliminated, because how dare that woman be dealing drugs from the house her children were living in. A few weeks later the extra details get released after the internal police review has cleared the officers of wrongdoing. Jane Doe was white, a Sunday school teacher at her church, no criminal record not even a parking ticket, no weapons or drugs had been found in the house, and the cops who killed her were at the wrong house by ten miles. Two female neighbors had been in the kitchen with her talking after she'd put her kids to bed when they heard the noise of the front door being kicked in, no announcement of police presence, no knock, just the door kicked in. Jane picked up a skillet before she stepped into the dimly lit hallway to investigate and died. People are now outraged by the new details. Is the above scenario something that should happen to anyone? I would say no, and the fact it happens disproportionately to POC in the U.S. says something about the way things are done here. The problem is it doesn't just happen in the U.S. and victim blaming happens in other places. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/04/systemic-racism-police-brutality-british-problems-black-lives-matterThink about it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 14:02:14 GMT
Sphinx-Cameron was there a riot in the USA about her death? That is an incredible story.
|
|
|
Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jun 11, 2020 15:38:43 GMT
That was a hypothetical scenario, so no riot was involved. The problem is for far too long a situation like that involving a "white" woman would have elicited outrage from a lot of people, whereas simply altering the story to be about a "black" woman too many members of "white" society would still think the woman somehow got what she deserved, simply because she was born "black".
There are plenty of instances involving POC getting shot for being "black" by law enforcement where no riot was involved.
A 75-year-old black woman sitting on her front porch in broad daylight when cops rolled up to serve a warrant. She told them two times they were at the wrong house. When she tried to stand up she was shot because a cop thought the broom leaned up against the wall, the broom she was reaching for, was a rifle. The cops had indeed pulled up to the wrong house to serve a warrant on the wrong person. No disciplinary action resulted.
An elderly black man, hard of hearing and needing a cane to walk, got pulled over during the day for a broken taillight lens. He was reaching for his cane when the officer shot him in the stomach. No disciplinary action resulted.
Breonna Taylor, an EMT, a black female, was shot to death in her apartment by cops serving a no-knock warrant in order to arrest someone who had already been arrested ten miles away. An outcome on that case has not been made yet.
There are too many similar true-life accounts through the years where overly-aggressive cops have gotten away with assaults against individuals and therefore society at large.
The reality is not all blacks are criminals, not all whites are racists, and not all cops are bad, but the bad examples from each group paint all the rest as being part and parcel of the problem.
Another aspect to consider is victim-blaming; many people will do their damnedest to blame the victim for whatever reason because it helps them feel like they will never suffer the same fate when there is absolutely no guarantee that under the right [or perhaps wrong] the same won't happen.
Dehumanizing people in order to justify what happened to them, not a pretty picture.
|
|
|
Post by Karen's Song on Jun 11, 2020 16:39:19 GMT
No matter what happens between law enforcement and a suspect it does not ever give people the right to attack innocent people by burning down their stores and looting their property. Both of those are felony. These people had nothing to do with anything. And many were black. I've seen video after video of Black store owners screaming at rioters saying 'This has nothing to do with Black Lives Matters, you're nothing but thugs." I have many black friends and all of them shake their head and tell me this is making things so much worse. It's no wonder people hate us. So sad but I have to agree.
|
|
|
Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jun 11, 2020 17:02:21 GMT
No matter what happens between law enforcement and a suspect it does not ever give people the right to attack innocent people by burning down their stores and looting their property. Both of those are felony. These people had nothing to do with anything. And many were black. I've seen video after video of Black store owners screaming at rioters saying 'This has nothing to do with Black Lives Matters, you're nothing but thugs." I have many black friends and all of them shake their head and tell me this is making things so much worse. It's no wonder people hate us. So sad but I have to agree. Interestingly enough, I don't recall anyone in this thread saying looting and burning stores was acceptable, though it's happened before.
If you need a slightly longer list.
|
|
|
Post by benziger on Jun 11, 2020 19:31:30 GMT
The reality is not all blacks are criminals, not all whites are racists, and not all cops are bad, but the bad examples from each group paint all the rest as being part and parcel of the problem. I may be wrong. My impression across the ocean is that the training of police officers in the USA is not comparable to that here e.g. in Switzerland. Of course our policemen have shooting training, but also - and a lot! - de-escalation, conversation skills, psychology, etc. Correspondingly, in most operations there is no use of weapons. If so, then pepper spray, distance stick. Every shot fired triggers an investigation. In the case of arrests, it is the task of the police to bring the suspect to the public prosecutor's office as unharmed as possible. Accordingly, they fix the shoulders / upper arms and even that only until the handcuffs are closed. Neck is forbidden under threat of punishment.
When I then read such horror stories, like from the broom on a bright day, I ask myself how these policemen were selected and, above all, how they were trained. Does it matter that there (USA) everybody is allowed to carry a gun? Does the story play a role (Wild West with sheriff as policeman, judge and executioner in personal union)? Are they afraid? Psychologically this could be explained.
|
|
|
Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jun 11, 2020 20:02:18 GMT
Depending upon the law enforcement department qualifications vary, though some may just require at least an Associates' Degree most require a Bachelors'. www.policeofficer.education/how-long-does-it-take-to-become-a-police-officer/Deescalation skills, conversation skills, as well as psychology used to be considered important, but some departments appear to value putting the threat down as quickly as possible these days. For instance when the president of a police union openly states he's been involved in shootings and it hasn't affected him at all, it tells a psychologist a lot about that individual's mental state and it isn't good. As for everyone in the U.S. being allowed to carry a gun, that is a myth. In some states it's difficult to get a permit to carry, not to mention the fact that ex-felons who haven't had their status as a full citizen restored aren't allowed to purchase or posses a firearm of any sort. Typically getting rights restored is accomplished by not violating parole or otherwise getting into trouble for a term of ten years and then applying for certification, but I don't believe they can purchase or posses a firearm even then. As for some members of law enforcement considering themselves above the law and as such feel they are allowed to carry out extrajudicial activity, it wouldn't be the first time it happened. One could posit that an indepth psychological exam would weed out individuals who are either unfit or no longer fit to serve due to psychological issues.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 22:21:40 GMT
The reality is not all blacks are criminals, not all whites are racists, and not all cops are bad, but the bad examples from each group paint all the rest as being part and parcel of the problem. I may be wrong. My impression across the ocean is that the training of police officers in the USA is not comparable to that here e.g. in Switzerland. Of course our policemen have shooting training, but also - and a lot! - de-escalation, conversation skills, psychology, etc. Correspondingly, in most operations there is no use of weapons. If so, then pepper spray, distance stick. Every shot fired triggers an investigation. In the case of arrests, it is the task of the police to bring the suspect to the public prosecutor's office as unharmed as possible. Accordingly, they fix the shoulders / upper arms and even that only until the handcuffs are closed. Neck is forbidden under threat of punishment.
When I then read such horror stories, like from the broom on a bright day, I ask myself how these policemen were selected and, above all, how they were trained. Does it matter that there (USA) everybody is allowed to carry a gun? Does the story play a role (Wild West with sheriff as policeman, judge and executioner in personal union)? Are they afraid? Psychologically this could be explained. There is a huge imbalance of resources in the United States. That is the beginning of everything.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 6:27:20 GMT
Sorry Sphinx-Cameron I missed the word hypothetical I thought it was an actual event.
Dehumanizing people in order to justify what happened to them, not a pretty picture. So are you saying that by reporting the fact that George Floyd was a criminal it's dehumanising him? Surely one can't justify that what happened to George was right, even if he was dehumanised. The policeman was entirely wrong to kill him by kneeling on his neck. However surely the media has a responsibility to tell the whole story.
Apparently George was being arrested because he supposingly used a forged $20 note in a store (although nothing has been proved yet) Alledgedly he resisted arrest and was supposed to also be drunk. It was unfortunate that the policeman who tried to arrest him and killed him,was (according to someone who knew the policeman, an agressive man.) This policeman, Derek Chauvin killed the unfortunate George. Knowing that George was a criminal (even if this dehumanises him) does not justify the way Chauvin killed him. Criminal or not Geotge shouldn't have been treated so brutally.
I feel strongly that we the public have the right to know the full story---the true story. I fear that by only reporting part of the story, many people used this to march, rally and vandalise. Surely everyone recognises that what Chauvin did was wrong but why whip up the public, which is undoubtedly what the media did (at least here in the UK) It comes back to what I said about publishers-----show responsibility.
Chauvin has been charged with murder and awaits his trial.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 10:23:40 GMT
Sorry Sphinx-Cameron I missed the word hypothetical I thought it was an actual event. Dehumanizing people in order to justify what happened to them, not a pretty picture. So are you saying that by reporting the fact that George Floyd was a criminal it's dehumanising him? Surely one can't justify that what happened to George was right, even if he was dehumanised. The policeman was entirely wrong to kill him by kneeling on his neck. However surely the media has a responsibility to tell the whole story.
Apparently George was being arrested because he supposingly used a forged $20 note in a store (although nothing has been proved yet) Alledgedly he resisted arrest and was supposed to also be drunk. It was unfortunate that the policeman who tried to arrest him and killed him,was (according to someone who knew the policeman, an agressive man.) This policeman, Derek Chauvin killed the unfortunate George. Knowing that George was a criminal (even if this dehumanises him) does not justify the way Chauvin killed him. Criminal or not Geotge shouldn't have been treated so brutally.
I feel strongly that we the public have the right to know the full story---the true story. I fear that by only reporting part of the story, many people used this to march, rally and vandalise. Surely everone recognises that what Chauvin did was wrong but why whip up the public, which is undoubtedly what the media did (at least here in the UK) It comes back to what I said about publishers-----show responsibility.
Chauvin has been charged with murder and awaits his trial.It's not one event. It's hundreds of years of injustice that the people are angry about. They have to overreact in order to be taken notice of.
|
|