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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 27, 2020 18:19:14 GMT
RM You have repeated that argument before, Indeed, and my opinion still holds.
RM Well, no one is compelling you to apply the test. There's not going to be an exam at the end of the blog.Read the post again. It's similar to an artist holding a painting or drawing upside down or looking at it in a mirror to emphasize problems in composition. No it's not, but who on earth does that? I have seen many documentaries about artists, and none do that. The last one I watched was the astonishing Drew Struzan, and he never did that, or viewed his works in B&W. (At the end of that he had retired because the studios said they no longer needed him. "Poster art is not required now, and anyway we have Photoshop and have no need to pay you at least 20 grand." Shame).
RM Well, by golly. You haven't seen any artists doing those sorts of things in TV documentaries so it must not be so.
There are 100s of artists, famous or otherwise, who have featured in documentaries on TV, and there are even more on line, some dead and some still alive, although it's difficult to show how artists worked prior to the invention of film.
Well, I can assure you, from my 50 years of experience in the visual arts, that tests like these are done all the time.
What on earth for? What sort of artists are they? If it looks right, it is.
What thegolly technique of inverting a drawing or painting does is allow you to see your art more objectively. Problems in composition become much more apparent. Sometimes artists would look at their art through special lenses that inverted the image (handy when it was inconvenient to physically turn a painting over). I have known others who will look at their work in a mirror. Certainly not all artists do these things (I don't do it with every picture I do), but it's a very common, very useful tool and one worth drawing attention to. www.finearttips.com/2012/12/struggling-with-your-painting-turn-it-upside-down/
It's not at all common, it speaks of uncertain minds, or perhaps they do it because you suggested it? although I have to admit that some of my abstracts may look better upside down or even sidways!In any event, anyone is welcome to post their attempts at cover design to the blog. In fact, I will be presenting specific problems as a challenge. All of these will be open to critique and suggestions. You are most welcome to participate! I wonder why horrible book cover site, or whatever it is called, never also show a cover in B&W for comments?
RM Gee, given that you said that you've had some of your own covers appear on the site it does kind of surprise me that you don't recall it's name.
Well I did look at it quite a while ago once, it's not important enough to remember, like so much internet content. (And it's not the only such site, although many simply express an opinion which is not open to further comment).
In any case, numerous B&W covers have shown up on (take a note now) lousybookcovers.com For instance, this one appeared just a few weeks ago lousybookcovers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/exo-500x708.jpg and one that was virtually B&W appeared just yesterday.
I am not talking about B&W covers created as B&W, but why do lousybookcovers not also show coloured covers in B&W to see if they are still readable? They don't because of the reasons I said.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 27, 2020 18:22:46 GMT
Blue&Gold tends to place B&W images of the covers of other offerings in the back pages of our books for the benefit of those who may desire to find similar products of interest. It is desirable that they look good in B&W. Would a link to a website not be better?
I simply put the descriptions, the ISBNs, and the main place they can be had from. Amazon. I agree that some publishers do have 'also by' covers in the books, but they often precede the invention of the internet, in the same way they often list a snailmail order address.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 27, 2020 18:23:55 GMT
Each to their own I suppose. I am perhaps too modernistic?
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Aug 27, 2020 21:56:08 GMT
Mr Lomas,
Consider the B&W test of a color cover from a different perspective. Suppose the viewer of a cover has difficulty seeing certain colors, if the person can see them at all. If you don't do the B&W test, the color-restricted viewer quite likely won't see what you intend if the difference in color and value is minimal. Not being able to see what the artist intended means the potential for lost book sales.
I would post an example, but without AC at present it's a chill 35.5556 C in the house right now and I just don't feel like it.
Cameron
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2020 7:40:01 GMT
It's similar to an artist holding a painting or drawing upside down or looking at it in a mirror to emphasize problems in composition. (Ron)
but who on earth does that? (Kevin)
I do Kevin. I majored in art and our professor taught us these techniques.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2020 7:48:37 GMT
I was going to put a couple of my book covers in grey scale on here to show how helpful that can be,(it does help Kevin) but it's so complicated to get an image on here.
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 28, 2020 11:40:34 GMT
It's similar to an artist holding a painting or drawing upside down or looking at it in a mirror to emphasize problems in composition. (Ron)but who on earth does that? (Kevin)I do Kevin. I majored in art and our professor taught us these techniques. Indeed. I was taught that in art college, I've taught it myself, my artist friends and colleagues (both illustrators and fine artists) use such techniques...and I even posted a link to a web page that explains how useful these techniques are. It's not something one necessarily does with every single work. It's just a technique to apply when needed.
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 28, 2020 11:49:06 GMT
Mr Lomas, Consider the B&W test of a color cover from a different perspective. Suppose the viewer of a cover has difficulty seeing certain colors, if the person can see them at all. If you don't do the B&W test, the color-restricted viewer quite likely won't see what you intend if the difference in color and value is minimal. Not being able to see what the artist intended means the potential for lost book sales. I would post an example, but without AC at present it's a chill 35.5556 C in the house right now and I just don't feel like it. Cameron There are several reasons that looking at an artwork in gray scale can be useful. Seeing how it might look if printed in B&W is one*, seeing how it might appear to a color-blind person might be another (and red-green color blindness is the most common). The reason I have emphasized most often (as I do in the relevant blog entry) is that the technique magnifies any problems in value contrasts. *There is a sad story about this. Many years ago an illustrator friend was working on a piece that was to appear in the interior of a science fiction magazine. Although the picture would be reproduced in B&W he painted it in color since this can be easier to do and because it would also make it easier to sell the painting later to a collector. The scene was a pitched space battle with laser beams flashing between rocket ships. Bright red laser beams against the black background of space. When the piece appeared in print, all the dazzling laser beams had turned to dark gray barely distinguishable from the background.
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 28, 2020 11:49:44 GMT
I was going to put a couple of my book covers in grey scale on here to show how helpful that can be,(it does help Kevin) but it's so complicated to get an image on here. Email the images to me and I will post them.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Aug 28, 2020 16:15:15 GMT
Consider the following images, one in color and the other the B&W version of the same image.
Either way the cover is seen, it's legible, though the color version is better at contrasting the minor differences between the figures in the image.
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 28, 2020 16:35:32 GMT
Consider the following images, one in color and the other the B&W version of the same image.
Either way the cover is seen, it's legible, though the color version is better at contrasting the minor differences between the figures in the image.
A good example! The B&W version shows that there might have been a little more contrast between the figures and the background in the color version (the background color might have been a little lighter). For instance, there could have been more value difference between the darker faces and the background. But the B&W version shows that there is still sufficient contrast for everything to read well enough.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Aug 28, 2020 20:31:49 GMT
Since I winged what I did of it and considering it works both in Technicolor and B&W, it's all good.
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Post by ronmiller on Aug 28, 2020 22:33:35 GMT
Since I winged what I did of it and considering it works both in Technicolor and B&W, it's all good. It works very well!
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 29, 2020 0:59:21 GMT
Mr Lomas, Consider the B&W test of a color cover from a different perspective. Suppose the viewer of a cover has difficulty seeing certain colors, if the person can see them at all. If you don't do the B&W test, the color-restricted viewer quite likely won't see what you intend if the difference in color and value is minimal. Not being able to see what the artist intended means the potential for lost book sales. I would post an example, but without AC at present it's a chill 35.5556 C in the house right now and I just don't feel like it. Cameron Someone has said that before, and I have said this before. If we attempted to design our covers for every variety of sight aberration, well, I don't see how it's possible. It would be like designing one that can be seen by an owl or a bee. So, just design one for the general public. I am deaf in one ear, I don't expect music to be made especially for me that only comes mono out of the righthand speaker. But, people should avoid designing covers where the colour variations are minimal anyway, at least with the text. I have just looked at a dozen covers and they all have very contrasting text. White on black and wot not. I am sure whoever designed those would know it would be clear even in B&W without testing them. If it looks right, it usually is.
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Post by And Kevin 2024 on Aug 29, 2020 1:12:35 GMT
It's similar to an artist holding a painting or drawing upside down or looking at it in a mirror to emphasize problems in composition. (Ron)but who on earth does that? (Kevin)I do Kevin. I majored in art and our professor taught us these techniques. Indeed. I was taught that in art college, I've taught it myself, my artist friends and colleagues (both illustrators and fine artists) use such techniques...and I even posted a link to a web page that explains how useful these techniques are. It's not something one necessarily does with every single work. It's just a technique to apply when needed. Let's see. I had two art teachers in primary school. Three in secondary (around the time I had two paintings in the Tate). I think there was around six in art college. Not one mentioned such techniques (although it would have been messy in the ceramics section). Ditto with a mate of mines advertising design company, one of the largest in Manchester, when I used to wander around it. The above says it all really. " It's not something one necessarily does with every single work. It's just a technique to apply when needed." Perhaps experienced artists don't need to? And teachers know if their pupils need to?
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