|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 13, 2020 2:15:16 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bjomanson on Sept 13, 2020 4:19:38 GMT
I identify the source for each cover image in the book itself. The paintings are in the public domain and other covers (i.e., Stark County Poems), are made from photographs I took myself, or are old photos in the public domain, or from my own collection. The site says we publish books. Most publishers job out the actual printing, but do everything else themselves. We do all the writing, editing, designing, layout, etc. Currently we use Lulu to do the printing, and we sell from the Lulu site. Apart from that we do our own distributing, and also sell from our own site. We may have to use a different printing company in the future, if Lulu keeps changing for the worse, but I hope it doesn't come to that.
|
|
|
Post by BlueAndGold on Sept 13, 2020 11:40:03 GMT
That is a VERY nice website, bjomanson! There are some very nice-looking covers there too.
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 13, 2020 16:06:17 GMT
I identify the source for each cover image in the book itself. The paintings are in the public domain and other covers (i.e., Stark County Poems), are made from photographs I took myself, or are old photos in the public domain, or from my own collection. The site says we publish books. Most publishers job out the actual printing, but do everything else themselves. We do all the writing, editing, designing, layout, etc. Currently we use Lulu to do the printing, and we sell from the Lulu site. Apart from that we do our own distributing, and also sell from our own site. We may have to use a different printing company in the future, if Lulu keeps changing for the worse, but I hope it doesn't come to that. That's fair enough. Do you mention sources in you books? And I have to be pedantic, but the banner on your site does say you print them.
There are many POD printing places, that do only that. This is just one such place >> podprint.com/services/ Lulu is mostly a place for self-publishing via, often using Lulu ISBNs.
|
|
|
Post by bjomanson on Sept 14, 2020 3:58:42 GMT
Thank you for your kind words, Blue & Gold!
Justkevin, if I may be even more pedantic, the only place the website refers to printing is on the banner: "Monongahela Books: Printers of Books on American History & Culture." "Printers" is how publishers were generally referred to in the early 19th & 18th centuries. It's a deliberate archaism, like "Ye Olde Publick House." I specialize in Colonial Americana, among other things, so many of my customers will recognize the period usage.
I list the sources for all my graphics (cover & internal) in all my books, either on the copyright page, or separately at the end of the book.
In my very first book (Stark County Poems), before I knew better, I used a Lulu ISBN. As soon as I realized it gave Lulu the right to identify as my publisher, I removed the book from circulation and reissued it using my own ISBN. All my titles since then use my own ISBNs. Most copies of Stark County Poems listed on the web now show Monongahela Books as the publisher. Unfortunately there are still a few of the original Lulu copies floating around out there, but they are gradually disappearing.
Thanks for the tip about podprint.com. I'm hoping to remain with Lulu, if I can work out all the new kinks. I've been with them for over three years, and until they made the big change, I was very pleased with all aspects of their operation.
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 14, 2020 16:49:01 GMT
Thank you for your kind words, Blue & Gold! Justkevin, if I may be even more pedantic, the only place the website refers to printing is on the banner: "Monongahela Books: Printers of Books on American History & Culture." Indeed, it's the first thing ones sees. "Printers" is how publishers were generally referred to in the early 19th & 18th centuries. That is because most publishers in those days were the actual printers. In fact they did not actually publish anything at all, they printed stuff for, well, often for self-publishers strangely enough. Pamphlets, Penny Dreadfuls and whatnot. It's was quite sometime before actual standalone publishing houses came in to being. When far more people became literate. It's a deliberate archaism, like "Ye Olde Publick House." Often a simple marketing ploy used nowadays. There's actually never been such a word as olde, or publick. But at least they are pubs. I specialize in Colonial Americana, among other things, so many of my customers will recognize the period usage. Sorry, I don't see it. You are publishers, not printers. Printers did not use to be publishers.I list the sources for all my graphics (cover & internal) in all my books, either on the copyright page, or separately at the end of the book. Very good.In my very first book (Stark County Poems), before I knew better, I used a Lulu ISBN. As soon as I realized it gave Lulu the right to identify as my publisher, I removed the book from circulation and reissued it using my own ISBN. If you used a Lulu ISBN, it will still be listed all over the place, just as no longer available, even if you withdrew it via your Lulu Projects. To have both on Amazon for example, could be confusing. All my titles since then use my own ISBNs. Most copies of Stark County Poems listed on the web now show Monongahela Books as the publisher. Unfortunately there are still a few of the original Lulu copies floating around out there, but they are gradually disappearing. Indeed, but they will stay on Amazon for ever.Thanks for the tip about podprint.com. I'm hoping to remain with Lulu, if I can work out all the new kinks. I've been with them for over three years, and until they made the big change, I was very pleased with all aspects of their operation. Indeed, I have been using Lulu for around 10 years, and although their site has evolved slowly it was not always noticeable. This change to something totally different is strange.
|
|
|
Post by bjomanson on Sept 15, 2020 21:42:27 GMT
Justkevin, you wrote: "That is because most publishers in those days were the actual printers."
~~~~~That is exactly my point: the earliest publishers were called printers.
You wrote: "In fact they did not actually publish anything at all, they printed stuff for, well, often for self-publishers strangely enough. Pamphlets, Penny Dreadfuls and whatnot. It was quite sometime before actual standalone publishing houses came into being. When far more people became literate."
~~~~~What period exactly are you referring to? There were established stand-alone publishers in England by the early 18th century. ---Charles Rivington started publishing in the first decade of the 18th century. ---Jacob Tonson, also 18th century, published Milton, Addison & Steele, Dryden and Pope. ---Longman, Greene & Company was established in the 1720s, and published Robinson Crusoe. ---Robert Dodsley (18th century) published Pope, Goldsmith, Sterne and Johnson. Each of these printers was a publisher by any definition of the term. They purchased copyrights of specific works and published them, and paid the authors. Standalone publishing houses have been around for 300 years.
~~~~~ The big increase in literacy began in the 17th century, and was well underway by the 18th century. Best-selling prose novels began in the 18th century. Commercial lending libraries also began in the 18th century. By the early 19th century the average person in the street was reading serialized novels in newspapers, which were then reissued as novels.
You wrote: "Sorry, I don't see it. You are publishers, not printers. Printers did not use to be publishers."
~~~~~Yes, they did. All the publishers I listed above were their own printers. While It is true that not all printers were publishers, all of the early publishers (that I know of) were also printers. And they were generally referred to as printers, not publishers.
You wrote: If you used a Lulu ISBN, it will still be listed all over the place, just as no longer available, even if you withdrew it via your Lulu Projects. To have both on Amazon for example, could be confusing.
~~~~~Yes, it is sometimes confusing, but there's not much I can do about that. Some listings show Lulu as the publisher, and some show Monongahela Books as the publisher.
~~~~~This past year I enlarged Stark County Poems from 75 pages to over 200 pages. I gave it a new cover and a new ISBN number. It still has the same title, but the edition is listed as "Second Edition with new material." A Google search will turn up both editions, but at least now, with different covers, they are easy to tell apart.
You wrote: "Indeed, but they will stay on Amazon for ever."
~~~~~Yes, so it seems. Stark County Poems now appears on Amazon with the warning that they have only three copies left. They evidently purchased a certain number of copies when I first used the Global Distribution option, because the listing is marked "Fulfillment by Amazon." I assume that once those are sold, Amazon will say it is "No Longer Available." Every other place that lists my book already says "No Longer Available."
~~~~~I only used Global Distribution once, for the first edition of Stark County Poems. None of my other books are globally distributed, and neither is the Second Edition of Stark County Poems. Global Distribution did nothing for me but take most of my profits. Also, once a book is Globally Distributed, it becomes much more difficult to revise. And, finally, I know of instances where copies of my book were sold through Amazon, but I received nothing for them.
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 16, 2020 1:42:17 GMT
Justkevin, you wrote: "That is because most publishers in those days were the actual printers." ~~~~~That was exactly my point: the early publishers were known as printers. Only if they actually printed things. How can they be called a printer if they do not print anything?You wrote: "In fact they did not actually publish anything at all, they printed stuff for, well, often for self-publishers strangely enough. Pamphlets, Penny Dreadfuls and whatnot. It's was quite sometime before actual standalone publishing houses came in to being. When far more people became literate." ~~~~~Here you are mistaken, I think. There were established publishers in England by the early 18th century. Very few compared to the 20th century, or even the 19th. There were simply not that many people who could read. Charles Rivington started publishing in the first decade of the 18th century. 1741, prior to that he was a book seller. Jacob Tonson, also 18th century, published Milton, Addison & Steele, Dryden and Pope. Another previous bookseller, who died in 1745, and held the rights to the works of Shakespeare. Longman, Greene & Company was established in the 1720s, and published Robinson Crusoe. Robert Dodsley (18th century) published Pope, Goldsmith, Sterne and Johnson. Each of these printers were publishers by any definition of the term. They purchased copyrights of specific works and published them, and paid the authors. A comparatively very short list, but none of them were printers or called themselves such. This is also a short list of just the top-publishing houses today www.tckpublishing.com/list-of-book-publishers/~~~~~ The big increase in literacy began in the 17th century, and was well underway by the 18th century. It really depends what you call big. In the UK some rare benevolent industrialists built schools for their workers' kids, but they mainly covered religion. You did not need to be educated to scrabble about under looms. Again in the UK, education for all, reading and writing, not just religion, was talked about greatly and some laws passed, but it was not until 1880 attendance at school became compulsory, and only for the under 10s. I doubt it was forced greatly because most families were too busy trying to earn money just to eat. Even up to 1901 the figure was put at 300,000 avoiding schools, and truancy was a major problem due to the fact that parents could not afford to give up income earned by their children. Best-selling prose novels began in the 18th century. Commercial lending libraries also began in the 18th century. That still does not mean that a large proportion of the population could read. Oxford University opened one in 1620, but only for their scholars and even today it's not easy to get a place there.You wrote: "Sorry, I don't see it. You are publishers, not printers. Printers did not use to be publishers." ~~~~~A number of printers were certainly publishers. All the publishers I listed above were also their own printers. They were not. They contracted out to existing printing companies. It only made financial sense. Who in their right mind would spend £10,000s on machines just to print the limited list of books they published? It would be like me buying one of these >> absolutebookprinting.com/equipment.htm While It is true that not all printers were publishers, all of the early publishers (that I know of) were also printers. It was often the other way around. Many printers over a 100 or so years ago printed stuff for other people. It was often the case that a publisher who eventually had the need to have a lot of stuff printed, even every week (magazines and what not) saw the economic sense in buying out the printing company they used, or setting up their own presses. They became publishers who also printed, usually only their own stuff. And they were generally referred to as printers. Only if they printed.You wrote: If you used a Lulu ISBN, it will still be listed all over the place, just as no longer available, even if you withdrew it via your Lulu Projects. To have both on Amazon for example, could be confusing. ~~~~~Yes, it is sometimes confusing, but there's not much I can do about that. Some listings show Lulu as the publisher, and some show Monongahela Books as the publisher. It is if they both come up in a search of Amazon, and there is nothing that can be done about it now.~~~~~This past year I enlarged Stark County Poems from 75 pages to over 200 pages. I gave it a new cover and a new ISBN number. It still has the same title, but the edition is listed as "Second Edition with new material." A Google search will turn up both editions, but at least now, with different covers, they are easy to tell apart. That's not the same thing. They are two different books, and people will know that if only by looking at the page count.You wrote: "Indeed, but they will stay on Amazon for ever." ~~~~~Yes, so it seems. Stark County Poems now appears on Amazon with the warning that they have only three copies left. That claim by Amazon (and other sites) always puzzles me. They are POD books, why hold stock? And if they have printed stock, then they should pay you for them. They evidently purchased a certain number of copies when I first used the Global Distribution option, because the listing is marked "Fulfillment by Amazon." I doubt it. I think it's just an enticement to buy before they 'run out'. I assume that once those are sold, Amazon will say it is "No Longer Available." Every other place that lists my book already says "No Longer Available." They should all really say that because it's been Withdrawn.~~~~~I only used Global Distribution once, for the first edition of Stark County Poems. None of my other books are globally distributed, and neither is the Second Edition of Stark County Poems. Global Distribution did nothing for me but take most of my profits. Also, once a book is Globally Distributed, it becomes much more difficult to revise. And, finally, I know of instances where copies of my book were sold through Amazon, but I received nothing for them. How do you know that?
But the thing is. You have an in-your-face banner on your site. Hard to miss. And it claims that you are a printer. When it should say publisher.
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 16, 2020 1:43:23 GMT
Seems you have just edited what I just replied to. Oh well.
|
|
|
Post by bjomanson on Sept 16, 2020 2:28:11 GMT
I know copies of my books were sold through Amazon because people told me they had purchased copies through Amazon. I know the dates. I wasn't notified or paid. Perhaps Amazon was selling copies that they had purchased earlier. Even if that is the case, I was only paid through Ingram's once or twice, and each time it was less than $3. Otherwise all my sales have been through Lulu's site.
Never mind about my last edits, they weren't important.
I'll switch to America, which is more relevant to my business anyway. The earliest "publishers" in the colonies were in fact printers. At first they brought their presses over from England, but by the time of the Revolution they could purchase presses domestically. They did all their own printing, and they were called printers. They didn't usually publish large books only because it was difficult to find enough type. (although at least one printer published a bible). They mostly published volumes of law and theology, as well as the usual almanacs and broadsides. Anyone familiar with Colonial America knows about Ben Franklin and his press. He published a major newspaper twice a week and up to 10,000 copies a year of his almanac. He had employees. He was called a printer, not a publisher. His business was known as a printing house. Other printing houses in the Colonies published books. In other words, Colonial-era publishers were called printers. My banner uses an 18th century font and 18th century terminology. It's no big deal. No one ever complained or questioned it before you. Authors seek me out to publish their books. No one tries to hire me to print wedding invitations.
|
|