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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 23:48:31 GMT
Ingram Spark sent a notice today saying, in short, they will delete any projects that affect their reputation. They will not refund any projects they delete. So, the way I figure, if people want to publish whatever they want to publish they will use Lulu.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 23:53:03 GMT
They call it Catalogue Integrity
IngramSpark is taking a necessary stand to uphold the integrity of and reduce bias against independently published works. To align with our industry's needs for content integrity, we will actively remove print content from our catalog that does harm to buyers and affects the reputations of our publishers and retail and library partners.
As of April 27, 2020, the below criteria describes the types of content that may not be accepted going forward:
1. Summaries, workbooks, abbreviations, insights, or similar type content without permission from the original author.
2. Books containing blank pages exceeding ten percent, notepads, scratchpads, journals, or similar type content.
3. Books or content that mirror/mimic popular titles, including without limiting, similar covers, cover design, title, author names, or similar type content.
4. Books that are misleading or likely to cause confusion by the buyer, including without limiting, inaccurate descriptions and cover art.
5. Books listed at prices not reflective of the book's market value.
6. Books scanned from original versions where all or parts contain illegible content to the detriment of the buyer.
7. Books created using artificial intelligence or automated processes.
We reserve the right to remove content that fits the above criteria without prior notice to the publisher. Any fees paid on behalf of publishers for titles removed due to the above criteria will not be refunded. This change of service is effective April 27, 2020 and is reflected in our IngramSpark User Guide V4.
We are committed to supporting authors and publishers for the quality content they've produced and continuing to provide our retail and library partners with high quality, trusted catalog feeds.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 26, 2020 13:15:15 GMT
Interesting, since the criteria listed can be quite subjective.
Consider Item 3, while unique titles are preferable it's not hard to inadvertently come up with a title that sounds similar to as in mimics a popular title, which is ironic since the title itself normally can't be copyrighted in the US.
Then the similar covers and cover designs, author names, or similar type content comes into question. There are a ton of similar covers with similar design features due to the cover artists who really aren't artists [one reason why I appreciate artists like Ron Miller]. Author names can be virtually duplicated, especially given how common last names paired with popular child names leads to a host of similar entries in phone listings [there are umptysquidllyzillion 'John Smiths' as an example]. As for similar content, that would cover a ton of romance novels, unless it's along the lines of a dominatrix vampire chasing after love with a monster-hunting squid-cat-spider-thing from another reality.
Item 4, how accurate can a short description be without turning into a synopsis?
Item 5, who determines the book's market value in these cases? If an author offers a steep discount in order to gain sales, then the book in question is not priced at market value and is in violation. If an author lists a book at a fair market value but a reader complains [whether with or without merit] about the book's quality, it's an issue. As for selling above a fair market value, those books generally don't tend to sell.
I can see where Items 3 through 5 will likely become problematic in a hurry.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 17:34:12 GMT
Interesting, since the criteria listed can be quite subjective. Consider Item 3, while unique titles are preferable it's not hard to inadvertently come up with a title that sounds similar to as in mimics a popular title, which is ironic since the title itself normally can't be copyrighted in the US. Then the similar covers and cover designs, author names, or similar type content comes into question. There are a ton of similar covers with similar design features due to the cover artists who really aren't artists [one reason why I appreciate artists like Ron Miller]. Author names can be virtually duplicated, especially given how common last names paired with popular child names leads to a host of similar entries in phone listings [there are umptysquidllyzillion 'John Smiths' as an example]. As for similar content, that would cover a ton of romance novels, unless it's along the lines of a dominatrix vampire chasing after love with a monster-hunting squid-cat-spider-thing from another reality. Item 4, how accurate can a short description be without turning into a synopsis? Item 5, who determines the book's market value in these cases? If an author offers a steep discount in order to gain sales, then the book in question is not priced at market value and is in violation. If an author lists a book at a fair market value but a reader complains [whether with or without merit] about the book's quality, it's an issue. As for selling above a fair market value, those books generally don't tend to sell. I can see where Items 3 through 5 will likely become problematic in a hurry. Yes, it's bizarre and unfair. I just published a book with them that is $99 US due to page count. This is definitely priced out of market, but not my fault. I have to select Color to make the pages thick even though the book is black and white.
Anyway, the whole thing is so random and people will go back to Lulu. How does it make sense to just delete projects you think don't add value to your catalogue. Strange industry for sure.
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Post by ronmiller on Feb 26, 2020 18:47:33 GMT
Yeah. #3 is pretty tricky. There are an awful lot of other authors out there named "Ron Miller." And at about the same time my "Art of Space" came out---which was about paintings of stars and planets---there was another "Art of Space" which was about interior decoration.
Still, I can kind of see where Ingram is coming from: they just need to be a little more focused and specific. For instance, if someone comes out with a book called "Forty Shades of Grey" with a cover that depicts a closeup of knotted tie, I think that I, too, would be a little concerned. I think what Ingram is looking for are examples of overt---i.e. deliberate---attempts to hitch a ride on the popularity of someone else's book. Likewise, I think they are also looking for book descriptions that are patently misleading. For instance, an illustrated Kama Sutra labeled as a children's bedtime story.
The problem with similar covers will certainly become an issue with a lot of self-published authors, such as the one who recently posted her cover on Scribophile and I was immediately able to find six other books with exactly the same artwork.
I certainly agree with both of you that determining "fair market value" is indeed pretty subjective.
Like I said, I think that Ingram was mainly just a little clumsy and overly broad in their wording.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 20:51:24 GMT
Yeah. #3 is pretty tricky. There are an awful lot of other authors out there named "Ron Miller." And at about the same time my "Art of Space" came out---which was about paintings of stars and planets---there was another "Art of Space" which was about interior decoration. Still, I can kind of see where Ingram is coming from: they just need to be a little more focused and specific. For instance, if someone comes out with a book called "Forty Shades of Grey" with a cover that depicts a closeup of knotted tie, I think that I, too, would be a little concerned. I think what Ingram is looking for are examples of overt---i.e. deliberate---attempts to hitch a ride on the popularity of someone else's book. Likewise, I think they are also looking for book descriptions that are patently misleading. For instance, an illustrated Kama Sutra labeled as a children's bedtime story. The problem with similar covers will certainly become an issue with a lot of self-published authors, such as the one who recently posted her cover on Scribophile and I was immediately able to find six other books with exactly the same artwork. I certainly agree with both of you that determining "fair market value" is indeed pretty subjective. Like I said, I think that Ingram was mainly just a little clumsy and overly broad in their wording. For the most part, I agree, Ron. But I strongly believe that they should have stated this before people spent good money. Forty-nine USD for print. That's a lot of CAD per book.
Lulu did something like this years ago; they decided to reduce the amount of sizes they offered. One of them was 7.5x7.5. It turns out I had a lot of books that size. They also decided to delete projects that were private and had not had one copy purchased in a year. Also unfair. These random decisions by big corporations. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 26, 2020 21:46:47 GMT
Yeah. #3 is pretty tricky. There are an awful lot of other authors out there named "Ron Miller." And at about the same time my "Art of Space" came out---which was about paintings of stars and planets---there was another "Art of Space" which was about interior decoration. Still, I can kind of see where Ingram is coming from: they just need to be a little more focused and specific. For instance, if someone comes out with a book called "Forty Shades of Grey" with a cover that depicts a closeup of knotted tie, I think that I, too, would be a little concerned. I think what Ingram is looking for are examples of overt---i.e. deliberate---attempts to hitch a ride on the popularity of someone else's book. Likewise, I think they are also looking for book descriptions that are patently misleading. For instance, an illustrated Kama Sutra labeled as a children's bedtime story. The problem with similar covers will certainly become an issue with a lot of self-published authors, such as the one who recently posted her cover on Scribophile and I was immediately able to find six other books with exactly the same artwork. I certainly agree with both of you that determining "fair market value" is indeed pretty subjective. Like I said, I think that Ingram was mainly just a little clumsy and overly broad in their wording. Ron,
Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment. An expert on sartorial matters writes a book dealing with suits and ties for every occasion, applies the title "Forty Shades of Grey", and uses a photo of a gentleman in an expensive Italian-cut grey suit* with a gray tie on the cover. In this scenario the book is about what to wear and when, as well as the best places to procure said articles. Posit that the description clearly states what the book is about. Even if the hypothetical author in this case applied a title like One Hundred Shades of Grey", it sounds like it would run afoul of the rules.
I agree on the Kama Sutra example.
I also agree Ingram was clumsy and overly broad in the wording, and depending upon how strictly they stick to that wording it could cost the company a lot of business.
*Disclaimer: The one decent suit I have is a gray [with a lighter pinstripe] Italian-cut suit I bought many years ago. Still good for weddings and funerals, neither of which I have any need to attend these days, though for some odd reason I don't get people seem to think it makes me look like a diplomat.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 26, 2020 21:48:28 GMT
Yeah. #3 is pretty tricky. There are an awful lot of other authors out there named "Ron Miller." And at about the same time my "Art of Space" came out---which was about paintings of stars and planets---there was another "Art of Space" which was about interior decoration. Still, I can kind of see where Ingram is coming from: they just need to be a little more focused and specific. For instance, if someone comes out with a book called "Forty Shades of Grey" with a cover that depicts a closeup of knotted tie, I think that I, too, would be a little concerned. I think what Ingram is looking for are examples of overt---i.e. deliberate---attempts to hitch a ride on the popularity of someone else's book. Likewise, I think they are also looking for book descriptions that are patently misleading. For instance, an illustrated Kama Sutra labeled as a children's bedtime story. The problem with similar covers will certainly become an issue with a lot of self-published authors, such as the one who recently posted her cover on Scribophile and I was immediately able to find six other books with exactly the same artwork. I certainly agree with both of you that determining "fair market value" is indeed pretty subjective. Like I said, I think that Ingram was mainly just a little clumsy and overly broad in their wording. For the most part, I agree, Ron. But I strongly believe that they should have stated this before people spent good money. Forty-nine USD for print. That's a lot of CAD per book.
Lulu did something like this years ago; they decided to reduce the amount of sizes they offered. One of them was 7.5x7.5. It turns out I had a lot of books that size. They also decided to delete projects that were private and had not had one copy purchased in a year. Also unfair. These random decisions by big corporations. I noticed Ingram does like to charge some hefty [to me] fees in order to use the service. |
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Post by ronmiller on Feb 26, 2020 22:33:19 GMT
Yeah. #3 is pretty tricky. There are an awful lot of other authors out there named "Ron Miller." And at about the same time my "Art of Space" came out---which was about paintings of stars and planets---there was another "Art of Space" which was about interior decoration. Still, I can kind of see where Ingram is coming from: they just need to be a little more focused and specific. For instance, if someone comes out with a book called "Forty Shades of Grey" with a cover that depicts a closeup of knotted tie, I think that I, too, would be a little concerned. I think what Ingram is looking for are examples of overt---i.e. deliberate---attempts to hitch a ride on the popularity of someone else's book. Likewise, I think they are also looking for book descriptions that are patently misleading. For instance, an illustrated Kama Sutra labeled as a children's bedtime story. The problem with similar covers will certainly become an issue with a lot of self-published authors, such as the one who recently posted her cover on Scribophile and I was immediately able to find six other books with exactly the same artwork. I certainly agree with both of you that determining "fair market value" is indeed pretty subjective. Like I said, I think that Ingram was mainly just a little clumsy and overly broad in their wording. Ron,
Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment. An expert on sartorial matters writes a book dealing with suits and ties for every occasion, applies the title "Forty Shades of Grey", and uses a photo of a gentleman in an expensive Italian-cut grey suit* with a gray tie on the cover. In this scenario the book is about what to wear and when, as well as the best places to procure said articles. Posit that the description clearly states what the book is about. Even if the hypothetical author in this case applied a title like One Hundred Shades of Grey", it sounds like it would run afoul of the rules.
I agree on the Kama Sutra example.
I also agree Ingram was clumsy and overly broad in the wording, and depending upon how strictly they stick to that wording it could cost the company a lot of business.
*Disclaimer: The one decent suit I have is a gray [with a lighter pinstripe] Italian-cut suit I bought many years ago. Still good for weddings and funerals, neither of which I have any need to attend these days, though for some odd reason I don't get people seem to think it makes me look like a diplomat.
I think that the book about men's clothing choices would still run afoul of the rules and perhaps rightly so since it would be pretty obvious that the author is playing upon the earlier novel in order to get attention. The description may clearly state what the book is about...but that is still tricky. It's possible that someone may buy the book on the strength of the title and cover art alone, because of its close resemblance to Fifty Shades. Or the potential purchaser may feel as though they had been a victim of click bait once they did read the description. It's even possible that EL James may have cause for complaint, pointing to the book as being either a derivative work or using her book's reputation as a kind of endorsement. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 26, 2020 22:47:45 GMT
Ron,
Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment. An expert on sartorial matters writes a book dealing with suits and ties for every occasion, applies the title "Forty Shades of Grey", and uses a photo of a gentleman in an expensive Italian-cut grey suit* with a gray tie on the cover. In this scenario the book is about what to wear and when, as well as the best places to procure said articles. Posit that the description clearly states what the book is about. Even if the hypothetical author in this case applied a title like One Hundred Shades of Grey", it sounds like it would run afoul of the rules.
I agree on the Kama Sutra example.
I also agree Ingram was clumsy and overly broad in the wording, and depending upon how strictly they stick to that wording it could cost the company a lot of business.
*Disclaimer: The one decent suit I have is a gray [with a lighter pinstripe] Italian-cut suit I bought many years ago. Still good for weddings and funerals, neither of which I have any need to attend these days, though for some odd reason I don't get people seem to think it makes me look like a diplomat.
I think that the book about men's clothing choices would still run afoul of the rules and perhaps rightly so since it would be pretty obvious that the author is playing upon the earlier novel in order to get attention. The description may clearly state what the book is about...but that is still tricky. It's possible that someone may buy the book on the strength of the title and cover art alone, because of its close resemblance to Fifty Shades. Or the potential purchaser may feel as though they had been a victim of click bait once they did read the description. It's even possible that EL James may have cause for complaint, pointing to the book as being either a derivative work or using her book's reputation as a kind of endorsement. Well, since the Ingram message mentioned covers all by themselves, the hypothetical title could be very different and all it would take would be a somewhat similar cover to run afoul of the loosely worded verbiage.
I'm not a JAG lawyer, nor have I played the role of one, but I have interacted with a few. All it takes is a litigious client pushing a spurious case and even the most innocent can suffer.
Ingram needs to tighten up its verbiage.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 12:58:50 GMT
For the most part, I agree, Ron. But I strongly believe that they should have stated this before people spent good money. Forty-nine USD for print. That's a lot of CAD per book.
Lulu did something like this years ago; they decided to reduce the amount of sizes they offered. One of them was 7.5x7.5. It turns out I had a lot of books that size. They also decided to delete projects that were private and had not had one copy purchased in a year. Also unfair. These random decisions by big corporations. I noticed Ingram does like to charge some hefty [to me] fees in order to use the service. Yes, really hefty, and for doing this, shame on them. They specifically say no refunds. Come on. Give people back their money if you randomly remove their book. (I haven't paid them much. I wait for promo codes, thank God.)
So my question, if bookbuyers, probably store owners, are ordering said Notebook, will they remove it?
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Post by ronmiller on Feb 27, 2020 13:18:34 GMT
I think that the book about men's clothing choices would still run afoul of the rules and perhaps rightly so since it would be pretty obvious that the author is playing upon the earlier novel in order to get attention. The description may clearly state what the book is about...but that is still tricky. It's possible that someone may buy the book on the strength of the title and cover art alone, because of its close resemblance to Fifty Shades. Or the potential purchaser may feel as though they had been a victim of click bait once they did read the description. It's even possible that EL James may have cause for complaint, pointing to the book as being either a derivative work or using her book's reputation as a kind of endorsement. Well, since the Ingram message mentioned covers all by themselves, the hypothetical title could be very different and all it would take would be a somewhat similar cover to run afoul of the loosely worded verbiage.
I'm not a JAG lawyer, nor have I played the role of one, but I have interacted with a few. All it takes is a litigious client pushing a spurious case and even the most innocent can suffer.
Ingram needs to tighten up its verbiage.
By an odd coincidence, someone posted a cover on CoverCritics.com recently that played off the original poster for Friday the 13th. The author considered it a parody---and parodies, at least according to how the US Copyright Office defines the word, are protected by copyright---but it clearly was not. In fact, only a few details were changed. He was very much taken to task by several members of CoverCritics for not having made his cover either sufficiently different or obviously parody. One of my own comments was "This comes a lot closer to an homage…which might be a nice tip of the hat to Friday the 13th, but there is no copyright protection for homages. In any copyright question I think it is always safest to err on the side of caution. "By the way, don't forget that that "litigious client" might someday be you. I was once on the Godly side of a copyright infringement suit and I can guarantee that you don't ever want to find yourself on the wrong end of one. If anyone is deliberately playing off an already existing cover, than they should do so with extreme caution. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 27, 2020 16:16:57 GMT
I noticed Ingram does like to charge some hefty [to me] fees in order to use the service. Yes, really hefty, and for doing this, shame on them. They specifically say no refunds. Come on. Give people back their money if you randomly remove their book. (I haven't paid them much. I wait for promo codes, thank God.)
So my question, if bookbuyers, probably store owners, are ordering said Notebook, will they remove it?
Good question, and if the stated Notebook sells enough then the quandary is cutting profits or ensuring Catalogue Integrity -- when it comes to corporations and money they usually choose the expedient course of which course costs more money in the long run. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Feb 27, 2020 16:33:36 GMT
Well, since the Ingram message mentioned covers all by themselves, the hypothetical title could be very different and all it would take would be a somewhat similar cover to run afoul of the loosely worded verbiage.
I'm not a JAG lawyer, nor have I played the role of one, but I have interacted with a few. All it takes is a litigious client pushing a spurious case and even the most innocent can suffer.
Ingram needs to tighten up its verbiage.
By an odd coincidence, someone posted a cover on CoverCritics.com recently that played off the original poster for Friday the 13th. The author considered it a parody---and parodies, at least according to how the US Copyright Office defines the word, are protected by copyright---but it clearly was not. In fact, only a few details were changed. He was very much taken to task by several members of CoverCritics for not having made his cover either sufficiently different or obviously parody. One of my own comments was "This comes a lot closer to an homage…which might be a nice tip of the hat to Friday the 13th, but there is no copyright protection for homages. In any copyright question I think it is always safest to err on the side of caution. "By the way, don't forget that that "litigious client" might someday be you. I was once on the Godly side of a copyright infringement suit and I can guarantee that you don't ever want to find yourself on the wrong end of one. If anyone is deliberately playing off an already existing cover, than they should do so with extreme caution. I usually do err on the side of caution, to the point I usually do searches on a prospective title [even though titles aren't copyrightable] in order to find as much uniqueness as possible. The point being getting a title as stands out as opposed to being lost in a pile of similar schtuff. As for someone infringing one of my copyrights, why would they? I'm not a great writer, no fanbase to speak of, and if my work were infringed it wouldn't be extremely hard to prove, which all added together means no real profit motivation. Apart from laziness, it's the lure of 'easy money' that usually leads to infringement.
I also agree that deliberately playing off an existing cover would not be a good idea, however inadvertently doing so is far easier than many would think simply due to the massive number of similar covers in existence.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 17:31:35 GMT
Yes, really hefty, and for doing this, shame on them. They specifically say no refunds. Come on. Give people back their money if you randomly remove their book. (I haven't paid them much. I wait for promo codes, thank God.)
So my question, if bookbuyers, probably store owners, are ordering said Notebook, will they remove it?
Good question, and if the stated Notebook sells enough then the quandary is cutting profits or ensuring Catalogue Integrity -- when it comes to corporations and money they usually choose the expedient course of which course costs more money in the long run. Yes, good question. |
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