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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 6:30:29 GMT
You and Ron did a fine job on the cover of your book "Regeneration, Prelude to War," Sphinx-Cameron. What a helpful man Ron is. According to Wikipedia "he has nearly sixty book titles to his credit, and his illustrations have appeared on hundreds of book jackets, book interiors and in magazines such as National Geographic, Reader's Digest, Scientific American,[3] Smithsonian, Analog, Starlog, Air & Space, Astronomy, Sky & Telescope, Science et Vie, Newsweek, Natural History, Discover, GEO and others." Yet he still finds time to help people here.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 23, 2020 10:39:51 GMT
You and Ron did a fine job on the cover of your book "Regeneration, Prelude to War," Sphinx-Cameron. What a helpful man Ron is. According to Wikipedia "he has nearly sixty book titles to his credit, and his illustrations have appeared on hundreds of book jackets, book interiors and in magazines such as National Geographic, Reader's Digest, Scientific American,[3] Smithsonian, Analog, Starlog, Air & Space, Astronomy, Sky & Telescope, Science et Vie, Newsweek, Natural History, Discover, GEO and others." Yet he still finds time to help people here. Ron is very talented, and I get why he helps. Unless I'm mistaken he wants to help aspiring artists and authors achieve something more through their talents, as in try to go beyond what they see as their limits because sometimes those limits aren't imposed by a lack of talent but rather the expectations of others.
My days of sketching a surreal scene are long in the past, the hands don't work so well these days and dealing with color when one eye detects low-band UV...
On the cover I set a simple scene meant to get the attention and Ron brought it home. With lots of lessons and time I might have come close, but the graphic aspect isn't my strong suit. Then again having kinder climbing all over me while I was trying to set the scene made it an interesting exercise.
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Post by Alain on May 23, 2020 11:10:16 GMT
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 23, 2020 11:56:30 GMT
Since prints on Lulu go through Ingram, which means you can't offer the 55% discount retailers expect, your prints on Lulu are at a competitive disadvantage.
Lulu Press is not Ingramspark.
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Post by Alain on May 23, 2020 13:02:45 GMT
Since prints on Lulu go through Ingram, which means you can't offer the 55% discount retailers expect, your prints on Lulu are at a competitive disadvantage. Lulu Press is not Ingramspark. Are you sure you took a look at the second link and especially at the example??? By the way, when I order a book from Lulu in Switzerland, it is printed in France. Ingram does, according to its own account (no link at hand in this second), print in the US, Australia and the UK. |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 23, 2020 13:20:09 GMT
Since prints on Lulu go through Ingram, which means you can't offer the 55% discount retailers expect, your prints on Lulu are at a competitive disadvantage. Lulu Press is not Ingramspark. Are you sure you took a look at the second link and especially at the example??? By the way, when I order a book from Lulu in Switzerland, it is printed in France. Ingram does, according to its own account (no link at hand in this second), print in the US, Australia and the UK. I actually did look at the second link.
I also utilized what I know about accounting, economics, and marketing. Whether it's cars, books, bricks, or boards, MSRP only works when you actually have a wholesale discount.
That said if you want to try do the retail thing to get your book into book stores through Lulu Press, it's your decision.
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Post by Alain on May 23, 2020 13:36:01 GMT
Most things I do are at least superficially my decisions.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 14:27:05 GMT
Are you sure you took a look at the second link and especially at the example??? By the way, when I order a book from Lulu in Switzerland, it is printed in France. Ingram does, according to its own account (no link at hand in this second), print in the US, Australia and the UK. I actually did look at the second link.
I also utilized what I know about accounting, economics, and marketing. Whether it's cars, books, bricks, or boards, MSRP only works when you actually have a wholesale discount.
That said if you want to try do the retail thing to get your book into book stores through Lulu Press, it's your decision.
Hugely good point, Cameron. I am trying not to step on any toes, or at least to be fair, but KDP and Lulu use INGRAM GROUP, which I believe is owned and operated by Ingram Spark, is it not? Why use a middle person? |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 23, 2020 14:48:43 GMT
Suppose my book costs $6.50 to print using POD since I'm not a Traditional Publisher who can use Economies of Scale to greatly reduce the per copy price with print runs of 10,000. Here's a simplified breakdown.
I want to make $.50 to $0.75 per book, and Lulu Press wants $1.00. The "Wholesale" price becomes $8 to $8.25 per copy at Lulu. But distributing through Ingram adds to the cost, and the only break a book store gets from Lulu Press is by ordering in bulk. Returns aren't allowed, though defective prints get replaced. That means if a book store orders 100 copies of my book and 95 are left unsold, the book store takes a loss.
Ingramspark offers freebies from time to time, but because you normally pay to upload I'm not sure they tack $1.00 on per book, though Miss Maggie would know better than I do regarding that.
Suppose my book still costs the same to print, and I go with $0.50 royalty and nothing extra is tacked on, the "Wholesale" cost is $7.00, with a MSRP of $10.85 to account for the 55% discount, meaning a bookstore can order 100 copies at $7.00 and markup to make the profit they need to make in order to stay in business. If I give the bulk buyer the option to "Return" unsold copies ["Destroy" being preferred], then if the buyer only sells 10 out of 100 copies they haven't taken a big hit to the budget, which makes my book a more attractive proposition. Since a lot of bookstores like prices to end in 99 or 00, my royalty would be $0.64 if I made the MSRP $10.99.
If I pay $49 to upload and then the cost of a proof, I would nominally begin to show a profit after all expenses incurred with the project have been recouped as in cover art, registering copyright, and so on.
As a self-publisher I may take some risk by going for the 55% discount and offering Returns, but the book store that orders my books is also taking a risk because the space my work occupies is space other books could occupy. It's up to me to be proactive in order to make my book as attractive a deal as possible.
If I do my own Amazon print distribution through KDP to give single-purchase print customers the most attractive deal possible, it's simply another business decision.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 15:19:48 GMT
Suppose my book costs $6.50 to print using POD since I'm not a Traditional Publisher who can use Economies of Scale to greatly reduce the per copy price with print runs of 10,000. Here's a simplified breakdown. I want to make $.50 to $0.75 per book, and Lulu Press wants $1.00. The "Wholesale" price becomes $8 to $8.25 per copy at Lulu. But distributing through Ingram adds to the cost, and the only break a book store gets from Lulu Press is by ordering in bulk. Returns aren't allowed, though defective prints get replaced. That means if a book store orders 100 copies of my book and 95 are left unsold, the book store takes a loss. Ingramspark offers freebies from time to time, but because you normally pay to upload I'm not sure they tack $1.00 on per book, though Miss Maggie would know better than I do regarding that. Suppose my book still costs the same to print, and I go with $0.50 royalty and nothing extra is tacked on, the "Wholesale" cost is $7.00, with a MSRP of $10.85 to account for the 55% discount, meaning a bookstore can order 100 copies at $7.00 and markup to make the profit they need to make in order to stay in business. If I give the bulk buyer the option to "Return" unsold copies ["Destroy" being preferred], then if the buyer only sells 10 out of 100 copies they haven't taken a big hit to the budget, which makes my book a more attractive proposition. Since a lot of bookstores like prices to end in 99 or 00, my royalty would be $0.64 if I made the MSRP $10.99. If I pay $49 to upload and then the cost of a proof, I would nominally begin to show a profit after all expenses incurred with the project have been recouped as in cover art, registering copyright, and so on. As a self-publisher I may take some risk by going for the 55% discount and offering Returns, but the book store that orders my books is also taking a risk because the space my work occupies is space other books could occupy. It's up to me to be proactive in order to make my book as attractive a deal as possible. If I do my own Amazon print distribution through KDP to give single-purchase print customers the most attractive deal possible, it's simply another business decision. You can work the system. Always upload to IS when it's free. It was free October to March 21st. That's a lot of months. And, always choose Return/Destroy with 55% discount. They expect it; you give them no reason to hesitate. They order one, two, if it sells they order more. Even after offering all that you still make the same as at KDP, except bookstores don't buy the same way individuals do. They are fearless. They need to stock their store, they need variety and abundance and it is not seen as money out of their pockets. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 15:27:41 GMT
If you want to be a publisher, be a publisher. Act like them, do like them; perfect books, edited, superb covers, honest, professional, catchy description, 55% discount to bookstores, return option, no constant change in book files. No shortcuts. Anything less is a desire to fail. Which unfortunately I've noticed in self-publishers. Almost apologizing for existing, and not caring their cover isn't perfect. Or their interior has errors. Make it perfect. Everything perfect--within your means.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 23, 2020 15:46:30 GMT
Suppose my book costs $6.50 to print using POD since I'm not a Traditional Publisher who can use Economies of Scale to greatly reduce the per copy price with print runs of 10,000. Here's a simplified breakdown. I want to make $.50 to $0.75 per book, and Lulu Press wants $1.00. The "Wholesale" price becomes $8 to $8.25 per copy at Lulu. But distributing through Ingram adds to the cost, and the only break a book store gets from Lulu Press is by ordering in bulk. Returns aren't allowed, though defective prints get replaced. That means if a book store orders 100 copies of my book and 95 are left unsold, the book store takes a loss. Ingramspark offers freebies from time to time, but because you normally pay to upload I'm not sure they tack $1.00 on per book, though Miss Maggie would know better than I do regarding that. Suppose my book still costs the same to print, and I go with $0.50 royalty and nothing extra is tacked on, the "Wholesale" cost is $7.00, with a MSRP of $10.85 to account for the 55% discount, meaning a bookstore can order 100 copies at $7.00 and markup to make the profit they need to make in order to stay in business. If I give the bulk buyer the option to "Return" unsold copies ["Destroy" being preferred], then if the buyer only sells 10 out of 100 copies they haven't taken a big hit to the budget, which makes my book a more attractive proposition. Since a lot of bookstores like prices to end in 99 or 00, my royalty would be $0.64 if I made the MSRP $10.99. If I pay $49 to upload and then the cost of a proof, I would nominally begin to show a profit after all expenses incurred with the project have been recouped as in cover art, registering copyright, and so on. As a self-publisher I may take some risk by going for the 55% discount and offering Returns, but the book store that orders my books is also taking a risk because the space my work occupies is space other books could occupy. It's up to me to be proactive in order to make my book as attractive a deal as possible. If I do my own Amazon print distribution through KDP to give single-purchase print customers the most attractive deal possible, it's simply another business decision. You can work the system. Always upload to IS when it's free. It was free October to March 21st. That's a lot of months. And, always choose Return/Destroy with 55% discount. They expect it; you give them no reason to hesitate. They order one, two, if it sells they order more. Even after offering all that you still make the same as at KDP, except bookstores don't buy the same way individuals do. They are fearless. They need to stock their store, they need variety and abundance and it is not seen as money out of their pockets. Miss Maggie,
That was kind of what I was getting at after reading the Lulu example of Retail versus Wholesale.
The example on Lulu Press shows selling there nets the self-publisher a royalty of $12.40 selling on Lulu and $4.00 everywhere else.
I set my royalties as close to $0.75 a pop for "Everywhere Else" and maybe sold three copies in seven years. The closest I've seen to a Wholesale Discount at Lulu is the Bulk Discount, which ain't great. static.lulu.com/create/volume-discounts
I do believe I can do better at Ingramspark with Return/Destroy and 55% discount because I'm not having to price my work to the point it becomes noncompetitive.
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Post by Alain on May 23, 2020 15:51:11 GMT
[...] or at least to be fair, but KDP and Lulu use INGRAM GROUP, which I believe is owned and operated by Ingram Spark, is it not? Why use a middle person? In my case obviously because IngramSpark does not offer 4.25" x 6.87" pocket book size, even though they would clearly be able to process that...  |
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Post by Alain on May 23, 2020 15:56:32 GMT
By the way, for the ones interested: The IngramSpark coupon code INGRAMSPARK2020 is now apparently valid until 30 June 2020: www.ingramspark.com/blog/ingramspark-promo-codes-available-now"Stipulations: Valid for print and ebooks until June 30, 2020. For free title setup, code must be applied at time of title setup. The code is not valid for refunds on previously submitted books. Please note that this promo code cannot be used in conjunction with a free ISBN." |
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on May 23, 2020 16:12:30 GMT
Ingramspark offers 4.25"x7", and using a tape measure on several old books in that 4.25"x6.85" size they measure anywhere from 1/8th inch over on width to 1/10th inch short or a full 7" on height.
The printer is going to try to get a book trimmed to specification, but even then there is allowable tolerance meaning a paperback nominally sized at 4.25"x6.85" isn't necessarily going to be that exact size down to the last micron.
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