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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 17:24:27 GMT
Oops, I missed one post. Larika, I think I would suffer reading that. Too sad. As in it would damage my soul reading that. I don't think I could take it. I'm sorry.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jan 18, 2020 17:59:11 GMT
Sometimes what the inner voice is yelling about isn't as obvious as we think.
I remember watching mist climb a steep slope against the wind, unsettling to be sure but the root cause is still unknown. Since soldiers from a battle that ended over a hundred years earlier likely crawled off to die at that spot it might seem obvious it was a ghost, but all I know for certain was it was a patch of mist behaving oddly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 21:13:36 GMT
If it's mist behaving badly, for me it's just mist. If it's behaving badly and I feel there is something really human about it, I might think it's a message. Not sure about ghosts. I don't even belief in aliens, so ghosts...hmm. However, people watching over you, and the spirit of someone close by, I believe in.
That being said, many people who have been to Jerusalem on the path where Jesus carried the cross, they said undeniably there is a potent feeling about the place. Even an atheist journalist said this as he was filming a segment, quite disturbed by it too.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jan 18, 2020 21:53:16 GMT
Maggie,
As for the mist in question, physics would indicate a patch of mist can't go uphill against the wind while the rest of the mist remains at the bottom of the hill. Sometimes things simply are what they are; not meant to be understood.
What you're talking about in Jerusalem is a reverberation across the Eternal Moment. It's a physics thing I was discussing with my father-in-law, him from a scientific perspective and me from a philosophical / spiritual perspective. I believe there is a similar reverberation at Konzentrationslager Auschwitz and other sites where intense suffering has occurred.
As far as ghosts goes, anyone's guess. Regarding aliens, the odds are greater for their existence than against their existence. Humans aren't nearly as special as they'd like to believe.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 18, 2020 23:14:43 GMT
Ah, but maybe, just maybe, we are special? Some could argue that fact. Here's a small sneak peek from SPACE: An Odyssey in Rhyme (I already wrote it so there's no sense in typing it again...)
Haji, Duke, and Dewey were preparing future meals For the coming days which might turn into an ordeal. Most of it was put away and Duke had left the room When Dewey opened conversation from his mood of gloom:
"Everywhere I've ever been there's bullies, thugs and thieves. "Only 'til we die it seems we never get relief. "Surely out there somewhere we will find an advanced species "Who will teach us answers we can all use to live in peace."
Dewey had been very quiet on the trip so far No doubt feeling low about his foolishness on Mars. Sensing Dewey's soul-searching had him a bit distraught Haji raised an eyebrow and engaged with Dewey's thoughts:
"Really? Tell me Dewey, what supposed facts are these "That make a non-earth species probable, as you believe? "And tell me, while you're at it, why they must be more advanced? "It's only fifty-fifty, don't you think - at the best chance?"
Dewey looked incredulous at Haji then replied, "The Drake equation proves that lots of worlds in the sky "Are capable of spawning other creatures such as us. "This is common knowledge, Doctor, which we all can trust!"
Haji slowly shook his head and sighed at this presumption. "The Drake equation, Dewey, is a series of assumptions, "Any one of which, if zero, will negate the whole. "Using only facts we know, the answer is zero
"Or one, if you count us." Haji winked, "So using this "There is zero evidence another race exists. "So Drake doesn't do you any good in that regard "And we've found evidence of no one else in our backyard."
Dewey squirmed around and said, "But everybody knows "The universe is huge! There's no way we'll ever go "To every nook and cranny even in our galaxy. "In a space so large there must be others - and plenty!"
Haji looked at Dewey with a twinkle in his eye "'Must be,' Dewey? Really? If there 'must be' tell me why. "If you can't prove others, by default we are unique. "And what is wrong with that? It increases our mystique."
"Mystique?" Dewey blurted "What the heck has that to do "With anything? Emotions are not scientific views." Haji said, "Perhaps they're not, but they have strong effects "Which no one can deny, though instruments cannot detect."
Dewey mulled this over for a moment then replied "Science is the facts, doctor, not emotion's lies. "Everything in nature is in chaos, isn't it? "We just need the right instructions how to deal with it."
"Science isn't truth, Dewey. Don't be one who's fooled. "Science is a process, it's a method, it's a tool "We use to understand the tiny bits we chance to see "Of the universe around us - not eternity.
"The method isn't perfect since it's used by faulty man. "Yet by it we've found rich rewards and blessings come to hand. "But it is incremental at its best and can't address "The fundamental questions every heart needs put to rest.
"All the best of science still has not stood up to tell "What it is that puts the spark of life into a cell. "In fact, we really can't define what life is, don't you know? "There is more to man than simple muscle, and marrow.
"You're certainly familiar with the second thermal law "Of physics that asserts that every single thing at all "If left alone continually falls to simplest form. "Only work applied from outside can reverse that norm.
"Chaos and decomposition is the normal state "And yet we see that life is ordered in a complex way. "Man is the epitome of creation's expression. "As we look around it must be anyone's concession."
Dewey nodded in agreement, "Most of us at least." Haji smiled and said, "Sometimes it's hard not to agree." And then he carried on with his expository speech: "Here is where some falter though it's not so far to reach:
"Order in the midst of chaos proves intelligence. "The fact alone that we exist is perfect evidence "That there is a creator who has made us by his choice "And if that's true, then shouldn't we attempt to hear his voice?"
Haji paused a moment to allow his words to sink Into Dewey's skull and hopefully cause him to think. "The table that we dine at proves there is a table maker. "The ship we travel in proves that there is a ship creator.
"Neither of them made themselves yet both will decompose. "It is the second thermal law. Now how do you suppose "Matter came about and then became a living man "If there weren't intelligence that made him with a plan
"For a purpose - just like tables, teacups or a ship? "Everything that's made is by design, isn't it?" "The wisest men of history have known this simple fact "And that alone should be enough to teach us how to act."
Dewey tapped his knuckles on the table absently. A contemplative frown gave way to questions presently: "If we are unique then why's the universe so huge? "Just to demonstrate that the creator is big too?"
Haji said, "Perhaps," and kept his eyes on Dewey's face. "Our physical perceptions are not all there is to space. "Perhaps it's only big to creatures limited by time? "Perhaps the size is immaterial to the divine?
"Would it not be cruel if the answers we all seek "Were out among the stars somewhere completely out of reach? "Then every one of us who lived before we found the key "To interstellar travel would be lost eternally.
"No. That makes no sense for a creator with a mind "To make a universe containing beings like mankind "Then simply turn us loose without a reason or a key "To fit the door that brings us out to meet eternity.
"And so the answers men have sought through all of history "Are not out there beyond our reach, but are found more simply. "It would make good sense if he who wrote those questions here," (Haji thumped his chest) "Would make an answer we could hear.
"Do you not agree?" Dewey nodded absently "We all have a purpose in life, including Dewey. "What we do in this life is the evidence we see "Of what condition our soul is in spiritually.
"Likewise what we do in this life may have great effect "On our eternal welfare, so we do well when we check "That quiet little voice inside which whispers what is right "And have the courage to stand up for principles and fight.
"You see, it's all about how we approach our fellow man. "We love and serve him selflessly the best way that we can "Treating the epitome of that creative force "With the same respect Creator did is a good course.
"Even criminals and pirates of the foulest sort "Have the opportunity to cease their evil sport. "They have that moral compass - it is there inside us all "The spark of the creator if we listen to its call
"And shy away from making that most unfortunate choice "To drown its quiet nudging with our own guilt-laden voice "And spend our failing energies unraveling success "Made by that creative spark that started our progress.
"Those who hear his voice and use their creativity "To build, perfect and grow creation's great complexity "Perhaps are destined for great things when life in time is done. "And that is the grand choice that must be made by everyone.
"But those who do not listen and assist the deconstruction "Of what's been created seem to bring their own destruction. "Selfish men of violence that serve only their own "When they meet eternity will not be welcomed home.
"At least, that's how I see it Dewey, but I'm not clergy. "I am just a doctor - not one of philosophy. "But in my years of medicine and travels and projects "I have seen the simple things confound the most complex.
"The answer to life's question has been with us all along. "It is available to anyone who turns from wrong "And listens to that still small voice built into every soul "It's been right there inside you and it is a worthy goal."
Dewey remained quiet for a long and thoughtful spell Then shoved off toward the galley door and turned to say, "Well, hell. "Doctor, I can't argue with a single thing you said. "Thank you for your thoughts. Maybe they'll sink into my head."
And then he disappeared into the bowels of the ship Haji hoped with fervor that poor Dewey had not slipped Further into his depression but would see some light And make the choices in his heart to help him feel right.
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Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Jan 18, 2020 23:39:47 GMT
In my time I've seen / heard some weird unexplainable schtuff without benefit of drugs, science, or religion. I make no effort to deconstruct or force what I can see or hear into a pattern I can explain so others find it acceptable, I simply observe and remember. This is also part of why I no longer discuss religion as a rule, and hopefully I don't need to add philosophy to the list.
Humans really aren't as special as they'd like to think, though that may be the higher than normal percentage of Neanderthal DNA talking.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 0:03:15 GMT
Cameron, I believe we are special, more special that we think. Look here now, I wasn't planning to log in, too tired, and I started reading a book that blew me away from the very first chapter. Yet, look at me, dropping the book to respond to humans, for how interesting and special they are.
I saw a cross in the sky several years ago, black in a sky of white. It was quite beautiful and shocking, and peaceful at the same time. I was very innocent and pure of mind back them so it felt like God saying hello. Now, I think I was imagining because I've become so polluted. but maybe my thought process was better then.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 19, 2020 0:08:41 GMT
There are certainly those who feel they are more special than they merit. But perhaps we are all more special than we deserve?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 0:12:29 GMT
Blue, I am so glad I logged in. I am humbled and touched by your poem and so love it. Good Lord. Forget the chilling, God guided your hand.
Ok, you won't like this because I said it to Larika, but you should turn this into a children's book, with illustrations. So important with very few intelligent children's books balancing both sides of the argument.
Starting from this part, I froze:
"Science isn't truth, Dewey. Don't be one who's fooled. "Science is a process, it's a method, it's a tool "We use to understand the tiny bits we chance to see "Of the universe around us - not eternity.
"The method isn't perfect since it's used by faulty man. "Yet by it we've found rich rewards and blessings come to hand. "But it is incremental at its best and can't address "The fundamental questions every heart needs put to rest.
"All the best of science still has not stood up to tell "What it is that puts the spark of life into a cell. "In fact, we really can't define what life is, don't you know? "There is more to man than simple muscle, and marrow.
"You're certainly familiar with the second thermal law "Of physics that asserts that every single thing at all "If left alone continually falls to simplest form. "Only work applied from outside can reverse that norm.
"Chaos and decomposition is the normal state "And yet we see that life is ordered in a complex way. "Man is the epitome of creation's expression. "As we look around it must be anyone's concession."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 0:19:39 GMT
A tiny personal story.
When I was about 19, maybe 18 and a half, I took a course called Science and Faith, and I was so enthusiastic in having a scientist teacher finally prove that all that nonsense I had been taught growing up was just that, nonsense. These uneducated people feeding me all these stories. I was tired of it and couldn't wait for the proof, the convincing arguments pro science.
Anyway, I heard the arguments on both sides and came out a believer. In God.
Go figure. The angle and special crook of a mother's arms touched me. There were probably many more answers science failed to satisfy in me, but that one I remember. And I tried again years later to be an atheist. Three months of misery and fear and flatness.
I'm off to read and thank you so much for your lovely postings, Cameron and Blue.
I feel like I'm floating after reading that poem.
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Post by BlueAndGold on Jan 19, 2020 1:19:29 GMT
One never knows what might fly out of one's finger tips. I'm glad you liked it, Maggie. When the Big Guy is on your side, you need not fear your Tai Chi lesson.
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Post by the jesus ninja on Jan 19, 2020 4:26:14 GMT
Maggie, that prayer,punch thingy is nothing unless you want it to be. It is a salutation, symbolic in meaning. There are some that are religious, some philosophical,and some are symbolic of family or lineage. In Buddhism or Taoism there are some we would consider as magical. But even these have to be trained and by "faith" made to work. They aren't taught to the lay person but only to monks or priests. Think of it this way, the punch/prayer thingy represents Heaven/Earth. The first two things God created
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 14:28:32 GMT
That's very sweet, Blue. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 14:30:05 GMT
Okay, Jesus Ninja. Maybe I'll do it just to not draw attention to myself and disrespect the teacher. I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 15:22:53 GMT
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