|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 14, 2020 17:33:02 GMT
Another consideration, you don't always have to print and mail a MS and related material to a TP. Something about uploading the file including cover letter and synopsis in rich text format comes to mind. You might wait several months to a year before hearing your submission was accepted , but that gives you time to write something else. I don't think there's any rules to say you cannot approach many publishers at a time. Who knows? They may all bite, then you could play one against the other.There is no consistent rule, but many publishers, in their submission guidelines, will state that they will not consider simultaneous submissions. Again, the safest thing to do is to carefully read a publisher's submission guidelines and follow them to the letter.
|
|
|
Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Sept 14, 2020 18:18:53 GMT
I don't think there's any rules to say you cannot approach many publishers at a time. Who knows? They may all bite, then you could play one against the other. There is no consistent rule, but many publishers, in their submission guidelines, will state that they will not consider simultaneous submissions. Again, the safest thing to do is to carefully read a publisher's submission guidelines and follow them to the letter. As you said, it depends on the publisher, and failing to follow those guidelines will likely end with a rejection.
Sorry about the earlier quarantines, I know my breath.
|
|
|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 14, 2020 19:18:18 GMT
There is no consistent rule, but many publishers, in their submission guidelines, will state that they will not consider simultaneous submissions. Again, the safest thing to do is to carefully read a publisher's submission guidelines and follow them to the letter. As you said, it depends on the publisher, and failing to follow those guidelines will likely end with a rejection.
Sorry about the earlier quarantines, I know my breath.
Yup. It's a fast way to get your MS sent right back to you. That being said... I was asking one of the editors at Berkley/Ace about this one time, about just how strict they were regarding the "no unsolicited submissions" rule. "Well," she replied, "no editor in their right mind is going to turn down a really good book just because it came in over the transom." But...like I said, you pretty much increase the chances of your book being sent back unread---and perhaps even unopened---by 1000x by not following the guidelines.
|
|
|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 14, 2020 19:33:50 GMT
Oh...and by the way...it's a fairly rare publisher who will want to see a complete MS upon initial submission. Like I said before, it's a quick way to get buried under reams of paper. What most publishers ask for is at least an outline/treatment, often accompanied by the the first couple of chapters. If what they see there interests them only then would they ask for the complete MS. This saves them a lot of bother and it saves the author the trouble and expense of having to turn out endless copies of their book. By the way, on the subject of submission requirements, DAW, an imprint of Penguin and one of the major publishers of science fiction, accepts unsolicited submissions. Their MS guidelines require double (not triple) spacing and 1 inch margins. And, at the moment, DAW accepts only digital submissions, another savings for the author. I have done five books for Workman Publishing. Here are the submission guidelines for Workman and its imprints. Of the latter, only Algonquin Books does not accept unsolicited MSS. The requirements for the others are very easy and without any need for a complete MS: www.workman.com/work-with-us/author-submissions
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 14, 2020 23:38:23 GMT
RM The editing I am talking about is more along the lines of content editing rather than looking for typos and bad punctuation.
So am I. As I said, one's own worst critic.
Even at that, it is hard to be wholly objective about one's own work, regardless of what one's experience might have been. An independent, objective viewpoint is always of value.
Indeed it can. But never assume it's impossible for some writers not to be objective about their own words. What I find it hard to do is decide when something is totally finished, even down to where a comma is. That nothing cannot be improved on. However, it can often be just another opinion.
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 14, 2020 23:40:24 GMT
There is no consistent rule, but many publishers, in their submission guidelines, will state that they will not consider simultaneous submissions. Again, the safest thing to do is to carefully read a publisher's submission guidelines and follow them to the letter.
That often means to themselves. They are busy enough without bombarding them with persistent approaches, akin to spam.
|
|
|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 15, 2020 11:49:23 GMT
RM The editing I am talking about is more along the lines of content editing rather than looking for typos and bad punctuation. So am I. As I said, one's own worst critic. Even at that, it is hard to be wholly objective about one's own work, regardless of what one's experience might have been. An independent, objective viewpoint is always of value. Indeed it can. But never assume it's impossible for some writers not to be objective about their own words. What I find it hard to do is decide when something is totally finished, even down to where a comma is. That nothing cannot be improved on. However, it can often be just another opinion.Indeed. But not all opinions are equal. To take an example I have used before, the opinion of your plumber about that lump in your neck is not the same as the opinion of your doctor. Likewise, the opinion of someone with years of successful professional experience working with authors and their books is not the same as the opinion of your grocery store clerk.
|
|
|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 15, 2020 11:53:53 GMT
There is no consistent rule, but many publishers, in their submission guidelines, will state that they will not consider simultaneous submissions. Again, the safest thing to do is to carefully read a publisher's submission guidelines and follow them to the letter. That often means to themselves. They are busy enough without bombarding them with persistent approaches, akin to spam.Well, no. It means simultaneous submissions to other publishers. But you are right though in that one should not pester a publisher. There are too many authors who will start writing or calling every day, asking about their book, a week after sending it in. It's OK to politely inquire after a reasonable length of time has gone by (for instance, if a publisher says they typically reply in a month but two months has passed)...but don't make a nuisance of yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Sept 15, 2020 12:48:43 GMT
There is no consistent rule, but many publishers, in their submission guidelines, will state that they will not consider simultaneous submissions. Again, the safest thing to do is to carefully read a publisher's submission guidelines and follow them to the letter. That often means to themselves. They are busy enough without bombarding them with persistent approaches, akin to spam.Well, no. It means simultaneous submissions to other publishers. But you are right though in that one should not pester a publisher. There are too many authors who will start writing or calling every day, asking about their book, a week after sending it in. It's OK to politely inquire after a reasonable length of time has gone by (for instance, if a publisher says they typically reply in a month but two months has passed)...but don't make a nuisance of yourself. Consider Baen Books [for speculative fiction, Sci Fi or Fantasy], the website says the process [depending upon number of submissions] takes nine months to a year for a novel to run the gauntlet and be accepted, meaning an email from them in three to four months likely isn't good news as I found out several years ago [my synopsis was crap]. Patience in this case is a virtue.
Some publishers accept simultaneous submissions, some don't, and of those that do accept the simultaneous variety some want to know. Follow their instructions, then settle down to write something else while you wait.
|
|
|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 15, 2020 14:59:07 GMT
Well, no. It means simultaneous submissions to other publishers. But you are right though in that one should not pester a publisher. There are too many authors who will start writing or calling every day, asking about their book, a week after sending it in. It's OK to politely inquire after a reasonable length of time has gone by (for instance, if a publisher says they typically reply in a month but two months has passed)...but don't make a nuisance of yourself. Consider Baen Books [for speculative fiction, Sci Fi or Fantasy], the website says the process [depending upon number of submissions] takes nine months to a year for a novel to run the gauntlet and be accepted, meaning an email from them in three to four months likely isn't good news as I found out several years ago [my synopsis was crap]. Patience in this case is a virtue.
Some publishers accept simultaneous submissions, some don't, and of those that do accept the simultaneous variety some want to know. Follow their instructions, then settle down to write something else while you wait.
Baen's response time can indeed vary a lot...though I think that a few months is probably closer to the average. Still, not contacting a publisher until at least the minimum time they have requested has passed is a good idea. So is keeping to the letter of a publisher's submission instructions! And you are perfectly correct...while you are waiting, sit down and start work on the next book! And the wait can be worth if it if you make a sale: professional editing and book design, advertising, marketing and national distribution, among other things. (I have done a lot of work with Baen. About 125 covers to date---and they have also published ebook editions of several of my novels. The editorial staff is relatively small and that, combined with their diligence [they give every book a fair shot], means that it does take time before they can respond.)
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 15, 2020 15:47:38 GMT
Indeed. But not all opinions are equal. Well it does depend on what the opinions are about. To take an example I have used before, the opinion of your plumber about that lump in your neck is not the same as the opinion of your doctor. Indeed, you often use that, but it's not relevant when we are on about word composition, not lumps or pipes (unless the 'pipes' are in your body!) which are two different things anyway. BTW. I am also a skilled plumber and electrician but not a doctor, and no offence to specialist doctors, but a highly experienced GP I used to know said GPs work by the slow elimination of 7 potential common problems (not that I can recall what they are!) If it's not any of those they send you to a hospital for tests.Likewise, the opinion of someone with years of successful professional experience working with authors and their books is not the same as the opinion of your grocery store clerk. It depends what you want an opinion on. Does the store clerk like it, for example. But you tend to forget my history, even though I have told you a dozen times.
|
|
|
Post by And Kevin 2024 on Sept 15, 2020 15:52:23 GMT
Well, no. It means simultaneous submissions to other publishers.
They obviously may not approve of it, in case they miss something good snapped up by another place while they are hesitating, but there's no binding rules that say you cannot, and it can take months, even a year, to get a decision, never mind any reply, and while you wait to be ignored or rejected time has been wasted, and you have to start all over again. It's no doubt why you hear "well, it took 5 years to get this published!"
|
|
|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 15, 2020 16:59:32 GMT
Well, no. It means simultaneous submissions to other publishers. They obviously may not approve of it, in case they miss something good snapped up by another place while they are hesitating, but there's no binding rules that say you cannot, and it can take months, even a year, to get a decision, never mind any reply, and while you wait to be ignored or rejected time has been wasted, and you have to start all over again. It's no doubt why you hear "well, it took 5 years to get this published!"Fortunately, not every publisher has a prejudice against simultaneous submissions. Many are perfectly fine with it...though it is a courtesy to tell them if you are doing that. This is where homework comes in: a publisher's submission guidelines will b explicit about whether or not they accept simultaneous submissions. If they prefer not to and you don't want your book tied up, then simply give them a pass and send your book somewhere else.
|
|
|
Post by ronmiller on Sept 15, 2020 17:06:00 GMT
Indeed. But not all opinions are equal. Well it does depend on what the opinions are about. To take an example I have used before, the opinion of your plumber about that lump in your neck is not the same as the opinion of your doctor. Indeed, you often use that, but it's not relevant when we are on about word composition, not lumps or pipes (unless the 'pipes' are in your body!) which are two different things anyway. BTW. I am also a skilled plumber and electrician but not a doctor, and no offence to specialist doctors, but a highly experienced GP I used to know said GPs work by the slow elimination of 7 potential common problems (not that I can recall what they are!) If it's not any of those they send you to a hospital for tests.Likewise, the opinion of someone with years of successful professional experience working with authors and their books is not the same as the opinion of your grocery store clerk. It depends what you want an opinion on. Does the store clerk like it, for example. But you tend to forget my history, even though I have told you a dozen times. I haven't forgotten. But I don't think that you ever told us just what magazine you were an editor on, or what sort of editing you did. For instance, my daughter was the managing editor of a magazine and as such had little to do with editing content. And, frankly, I think that if I were hoping to get my book published in the best shape and at the highest polish it could get, I would rather depend on the advice of an experienced, knowledgeable editor than on whether or not the local grocery clerk "likes" it. One would be hard put to find a self-published book so godawful that it doesn't get at least one "like" from someone...a score which means absolutely nothing.
|
|
|
Post by Retread-Retired-Cameron on Sept 15, 2020 18:15:49 GMT
Well, no. It means simultaneous submissions to other publishers. They obviously may not approve of it, in case they miss something good snapped up by another place while they are hesitating, but there's no binding rules that say you cannot, and it can take months, even a year, to get a decision, never mind any reply, and while you wait to be ignored or rejected time has been wasted, and you have to start all over again. It's no doubt why you hear "well, it took 5 years to get this published!"While there are no binding rules [as in laws] preventing a writer from making simultaneous submissions, it pays to pay attention to what a publisher prefers as opposed to what you prefer.
Another point to remember is when an editor [whose publishing company doesn't do simultaneous submissions] goes through what made it through the slush pile, decides they like your gemstone quality story, and then hears you got an offer from another publisher, odds are they won't want to hear from you again for a long while if ever.
Unless the work is in a niche under-served by TP, , unless the writer already has a large established following, odds are it will go further in terms of sales with a large established publishing house than with say, Lulu Press. Yes, waiting to hear back can be irritating, but when a writer doesn't have the money to do all the things [think content editing, marketing, advertising, and so on] says screw it and decides to Self-Pub instead of waiting, odds are the story in question isn't going nearly as far as it would have if the writer had decided to submit and wait.
If someone is going to try the TP route with their work, the best advice is get the writers' guide Ron mentioned, find out what the publisher wants to see, then follow the instructions for each as close to perfectly as possible. Whether it's horses, Carolina Reaper peppers, or hand grenades, paying attention to what's going on will usually save you a lot of grief.
|
|